Alt-Focus: Did I care about my high school grades? No. I went to high school part time, and it was pretty low on my list of priorities. I was satisfied making A's and B's (C's in physics) because that kept my parents off my case. Besides, in my school you could have a 4.0 GPA and not be in the top 10% of the class. I felt like it was pointless to strive for straight A's when I only took a handful of AP courses. I hardly even knew anyone in my high school because I was in and out by lunchtime every day. So, there was no pressure from my peers to do well. Why did this teacher even post this online? It seems like a waste of energy. Why didn't she channel that frustration into something productive that might actually inspire or motivate her students?
You care about grades in high school so you don't have to go to a community college. You care about grades in college because you think it'll boost your resume. Then you realize a 2.0 wouldn't impress an employer, stop going to class, and drink all day.
Yeah, redbullgreygoose is right on the money here. I was never outright disrespectful or rude towards any of my teachers, but for most of them, I never listened to a word of their lectures. I knew what needed to be done to get an A, and maybe I would learn the material myself if I felt like it, but I'll be damned if the teacher's lecture took precedence over me killing Dracula in Castlevania. Interestingly enough, this was the exact same attitude of virtually every Asian student in my class, of whom there is this absurd stereotype of being really studious and interested in the material. Nonsense. Some of those guys even put me to shame with how much they tuned out the class.
Can we get a poll on the number of college grads that actually had their employers ask for grades? I majored in math and thought I was doomed because I only had a 3.2 (apparently some professors want you to show up, jerks) but not a single place I applied to asked for my grades and now I'm out earning every single person from my program that I keep in touch with and they were all honors this, A+ that in school.
Fuck asking for grades...I've never had an employer ask to see the parchments! I could be completely lying my ass off about the civil engineering and the Bachelor's degree. The only people who ever wanted to see proof of my education was the NGO I volunteered in Uganda with. All those years in school and NO ONE asks for proof. I know a great many people who can tell fairly detailed, precise stories about elementary school, junior high and high school. Stories like, "I got a B+ in Grade eleven for math, which was so bullshit because the teacher refused to give part marks for blah blah blah." Who the hell remembers these kinds of details about their early schooling? I'm lucky if I can remember taking a class in university, never mind being able to recall chapter and verse the grades I got in junior high. If you remember grade school so well, I think it's a sign that you need to move on and have some life experience.
I have always cared about my grades much more than learning. Reading that, it seems ridiculous. But everyone knows it's possible to get good grades without actually learning the material. After I learn the material I usually don't retain very much of it until I have to cram again for the final. Of course I'd love to be interested in all my areas of study, but I'm just not. By reading the posts it seems like there's a divide between people who like to learn and people who want the results. I want the results. I study and go to class because I want future employers to see the results. If I didn't need that expensive paper they give you after graduating I probably wouldn't be enrolled in college. Most of the things I'm interested in can be learned without a formal education. Not all, but most. In real life I hear a lot of people who say the same thing, but I could never relate to this. I figured that the reason everyone goes to college is because the best way to secure the highest majority of the best paying jobs is to have a diploma. There are many exceptions to this rule, but I believe it hold true for the majority of jobs. When people tell me they're going to school because they are intensely interested in a burger king major I can't help but think what a waste of money it is. College is already insanely expensive and almost seems like it isn't worth the money to begin with. But when I hear someone tell me they're going to college because they love underwater firework prevention I can't help but think they're just wasting money by paying for tuition when they could be using it to pay rent while they intern somewhere. But I don't know, to each their own.
I'm currently a senior in college with a very respectable job lined up, so this is all fairly fresh experience for me. Your milage may vary: For your first position, at least on my campus, the recruiting ads will often suggest a particular GPA. But even if they don't, it's assumed that your GPA should be included on your resume. If you are a recent grad and it isn't included, it's often assumed that it's unimpressive and that you're trying to hide it. Many of the "prestigious" jobs (consulting, finance, etc.) will have de facto GPA cut offs. Yeah, internship experience counts, but really the same is true there. Maybe even more so. These people are getting at least 30 applicants per opening. Often more like 100 applicants per opening. GPA is an easy decision rule. Yes, the interview is more important. But for the most competitive jobs coming out of undergrad, your GPA is the usual way that people get in the door. Obviously, the older you get, the less this is true. But coming right out the door, yes it matters. Many positions (maybe 1/4?) asked for a transcript. For the job I ended up taking, for the final round interviews, some of the people even whipped out the transcript and asked me questions about specific classes.
Yeah, this is mostly the case, although there are a few exceptions. Basically, as a very honest recruiter once told me, all anyone is looking to see is that "you're not a dumbass". There was one internship where my GPA was lower than the stated cut-off, but I got it anyways, since my program and school was considered a relatively difficult one. I think it really depends under which circumstances you hand off your resume, who is looking at it, what the job is, and who applies. Talk to a recruiter a bit before giving him your resume, and your GPA becomes that much less important. But yeah, it has some influence in getting your foot in the door if you're a recent grad or current undergrad.
This is certainly true, but at my school, very little recruiting was done in person. Most of it was online, meaning that the recruiters were essentially given a stack of 100ish resumes, cover letters, transcripts, etc. and had to decide which 10 or so they want to interview. Presented with that much material, there's no choice but to scan quickly and simplify. Cover letters are barely glanced through, and often it comes down to "What's his major? What's his GPA? Where were his internships?"
I was totally indifferent to grades in High School. Any pass, be it an A+ or the gentleman's C, was fine by me. Coasting was my religion, I dropped any subjects which would require work (high level maths, organic chem, physics) in favour of subjective bullshit classes - Lit, Drama, History. I remember my history teacher calling me back after class saying 'if you just put in some work, you could top the school in History', to which my 16 year old self replied 'why would I care about that? What earthly benefit would I receive?'. She stood there helplessly in frustration, while I went on my smug way, congratulating myself on my own cleverness at not putting in the effort to succeed. Uni was exactly the same deal. Started off doing Comp Sci, cheated my way through the semester, failed 3 out of 4 units come exam time. Changed majors, got my degree in 'Communication and Cultural Studies', which was basically a series of essays on how patriarchal discourse disempowered marginalised groups, and just typing that phrase again makes me want to rip out my own fingernails. I'm sure you'll all be shocked when I tell you that nearly a year out of Uni, I finally got my dream job... as a Receptionist. Through some luck and a bit of initiative, I finally managed to turn that into a very respectable job which I was massively underqualified for. I interviewed for an hour and a half, and a lot of that interview was explaining away my shitty degree. Imagine my surprise when I entered the business world proper. Suddenly, I was the dumbest person in the room. Everyone around me knew more than I did, had more experience, and more confidence - and I had to negotiate with these people. I started working 11 hour days, 5 days a week, just to try and get up to speed. I've never had a more sobering day than when I realized that that intelligent slackers are perhaps the world's commonest, and least valuable, commodity. The reason 'wasted potential' is a cliche is because it is perhaps the most common thing around. I'm not sure how you impart that knowledge to school kids - I'm not even sure it's possible to do so. However, I will point out that schooling didn't start, at least in Australia, to educate kids. It started because merchants complained that loitering children were making it difficult for paying customers to enter their shops. School started as a mechanism for keeping kids from gumming up the wheels of commerce. (If anyone cares enough about this to dispute it, I can provide primary source references). And that, folks, is not a good way to begin a pedagogically sound institution. Fix the system, make it less about controlling kids' whereabouts 8 hours a day so their parents are free to work, and perhaps kids will care more about learning. Just a thought.
Why would a piece of paper prove you graduated? That's easy to forge. They don't ask to see the paper if they want to know, they just call the school that's listed on your resume. I've worked at two businesses that do full-on background checks for employees, and interviewed at two places that specifically asked about my GPA. Plenty of places are interested in your grades - at least, in the IT/technology world.
Yes, but for that (at least in Canada), they'd need your student ID number and your consent. It's more likely they'd just ask you to arrange your transcripts to be mailed from the institution. So far...nada.
Today I got this note from a concerned parent of one of my students: Spoiler "Mr. Be_Cool I am [student's] grandma. I guess I signed for her to read Slaughter House 5. I am sorry. But, I don' t think this book is appropriate for anyone to read especially my 16 year old grandaughter. I do not want her to read this book. Thank You, [signature]" If the kid was in one of my regular classes, I would understand. They don't want to be there, so I'm not going to force them to read something offensive. But since she's in my advanced class, it struck a nerve. First off, I know she hadn't read a page and found an easy way out after her parents found out she was failing. But that's beside the point. Vulgarity and irreverence serve a purpose in art. If you can't get past your own knee-jerk reaction, your student doesn't even stand a chance to do any sort of critical thinking. So I have to agree with this teacher on the idea that parents are keeping their kids from succeeding. Unfortunately, grades end up being the bottom line and there's no hope if the student's parents don't care how well they do. If you got through high school with minimal effort, why should you expect it to be any different for your kid? But I can't sympathize with her for having kids who are out of control. Teaching becomes a lot easier if you quit fighting your students and start using their energy constructively. Students won't stop talking? Give them group work. Student keep acting out for attention? Have him give a presentation. Students keep whining? That's what happens when you suddenly raise the bar on kids who have never had anything expected of them. You probably gave in to them once and now they know they can get away with it. It's a problem we all have. Sure, I usually place the blame on the child's home life too, but for 45 minutes a day I get to have some influence over them. And yes, I am getting that letter framed.
There's a very simple response to that; "Dear Madam, Thank you very much for your letter and concerns! We would never wish to have a 16 year-old student read a book that her grandmother disproves of, and thus, we appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Since we began reading this novel X weeks ago, and I am receiving your complaint now, Y weeks before the essay, I will be happy to have your daughter write an essay on "Slaughterhouse Five" on only that portion of the assigned reading she did before I received your letter. We will also happily allow her to read "Les Miserables"/"Ulysses"/(something else long and boring) while the rest of the class finishes "Slaughterhouse Five", and then write an essay on the portion of that book she finishes. Thank you again for your correspondence, (Signature)"
I'm sorry, but this is just utterly fucking stupid. "forget about them?" -- that has to be the single stupidest thing I've read on here. As a teacher, your job is to FIND A WAY to reach those students who don't want to learn. Is it easy? Fuck no, it's difficult as shit. Is it impossible? Not at all. You have to find some way to make a connection, SOME WAY to reach that kid, that not only helps him to learn, but also makes him WANT to learn. If you can't do that -- or are just plain unwilling -- then you are in the wrong profession. There are too many people who got into teaching for a myriad of reasons -- thinking it'd be easy, wanting summers off, not being able to find a "real" job, etc -- only to soon find out that teaching is fucking difficult. It is definitely not for everyone. However, you don't just "forget about" a student and move on.
You can't tell me that kids these days don't get coddled in unecessary ways. I don't know if this stupid idea has gone viral yet, but in these parts they banned teachers from using red pens to mark tests because it's negative and a teenager's fragile mind just can't handle a big, mean ol' red X. Why, the poor darling might think they got that answer wrong! Why is the board of Ed such pussies nowadays? Where is this going from ten years from now? This brings me back to the good ol' days when my vice principal slammed a measuring stick across the back of my hand like a Norse hammer because I played on an out-of-bounds snow bank. Wonderful having your hand frozen into a claw for more than two days.
Actually, redbullgreygoose is completely correct. You just can't force someone to learn if they don't want to. I'm a good example; I was determined to do the bare minimum to get a respectable grade in many of my classes, but could care less about learning the material itself, even if the teacher was great. Some kids don't even care about grades; how the hell are you going to "FIND A WAY" to convince them otherwise? Or in my case, even tell that I'm tuning it all out? No one can even "FIND A WAY" to convince every student that robbing, rape, and murder is wrong, and that we should all contribute to society in a beneficial way. But you think it's a feasible goal to get them interested in school subjects ranging from Shakespearian literature to analytic geometry? Have you ever worked as a teacher, Riggins? Believe me, it doesn't work like whatever heartwarming school films you've watched. Not every student is an eager mind just waiting to be inspired.
Actually, I am currently in my fifth year of being a high school teacher and coach, and come from a family of successful educators. I work at a low-level socioeconomic school; it is actually in one of the poorest districts in all of Texas. However, it is rated as an exemplary district year in and year out, and routinely has some of the highest test scores across the state. Why? Because the teachers "find a way" to relate to their students and connect with them. Does every student want to learn Shakespearian literature or analytical geometry? No. But that doesn't mean you just give up and forget about them. You work overtime to find ANY type of connection possible to interest them in learning, and then go from there. Is it an over night fix? Fuck no. It takes an incredible amount of time, and is only successful if you have an army of teahers who are willing to do the work it takes, and who don't just forget about them and focus on those who "care about learning."
And you're saying that every single student at your school truly cares about the subjects they're being taught? Not even just about the grades, but the very subject itself? I'm not saying a passionate, motivated educator can't make a huge difference. I think they can. But inevitably, there will always be students who just don't care, or ones like myself, who care only enough to get the grade.
I'm not saying every single student cares about every single subject being taught, but that doesn't mean that you give up on them. You find something that they are truly interested in and try to cultivate that interest and have it run over into other subjects. The point is, you by no means "forget about them" and only focus on the ones who "care about learning."