Wait, you fucked who?

I had a friend, not a good friend, but a friend-of-a-friend kind of thing. His wife was hot. 9 easy. Always had a bit of a crush on her, never did or said anything, cause I'm a friend. Shit, he wasn't even a friend of mine, but there'd be times we went out with the boys, and he'd fuck some broads. The whole bunch of us, girls included (great big diverse friend group) we figured it wasn't our fucking business. We were all getting ours, didn't want to rock the boat.

Cut to a couple years later. They've been divorced almost a year, and me and her are talking a great deal.

Focus: How much truth is too much truth, when you're dating an ex, a friend of an ex, a girl your mate once fancied, etc...

Alt Focus: What's the worst you've ever done with a guy/girl that your friend had "dibs" on, or that they'd already been with?

Super non inclusive focus, do i try now? she seems receptive, but i fear the social backlash.... Beyond that, do I mention how much he cheated on her? Last I talked to her, she doesn't seem to know. I don't wanna influence the divorce settlement...

 

Everyone thinks this is like a black and white situation. Either you do bang your friend's exes/be a homewrecker or you don't. But I think it's a much grayer area, depending on how often/how able you are to get laid, and whether this would be a really super opportunity for you.

For example, Angelina Jolie went and banged Brad Pitt while he was married to Jennifer Aniston. Was that OK? No! Angelina Jolie can bang any guy she wants, up to and including Brad-Pitt-looking guys. She does not need to bang Brad, that's just gratuitous.

Now in your situation, if your friend's soon-to-be-ex-wife is still a 9, and you're like a 3 or a 4, then I'm thinking that you get a bye on that. I mean, don't rub it in your buddy's face and don't trash your buddy while you're inside her or anything like that. "Oh...Oh...OHHHH.....OHHH JOHN CHEATED ON YOU...RRRRRRRAaahahghhhhh." None of that. Or, if you're better than a 3 or 4, but you haven't gotten laid in like 2 years. Then I think it's legit. Just be discreet.

 

My close circle of friends has few rules, but one of them is that once a guy has dated a girl, she's private parking for life unless all parties agree to disband. We don't "hijack" each other or mow anybody else's lawn.

 

That's if he's even close with him in the first place, for all we know(and even though iczorro does not specifically state) this guy cheated on her a couple of times. If he wasn't even a close friend other then someone you said "hey" to and took shots with, and cheats on his girlfriend, who's to say he wouldn't "cheat" on anyone else he's close with? My father and a childhood friend of his severed ties when his friend became addicted to gambling and made life a living hell for the wife and kids.

You can start by making a list of immediate repercussions:
What's the best thing(s) this guy has done for you/what's the worst thing he can do to you now?
What will your group think? It's entirely possible that you face backlash from only a few people because others (even guys in happy relationships) liked the girl better than the guy. This will definitely not happen until they finalize their divorce as you may be seen as a catalyst for their breakup.

On a somewhat related matter:

Since the online dating advice thread on the general forum I have been browsing okcupid for the past 2 weeks. I've found my best friend's ex-girlfriend's profile on there and she has answered 800 questions and 100 questions related to sex. Personal details galore! I'm still amazed by their algorithm which is spot on: 55% match.. 76%friend..32%enemy.. Now do I show my friend this or not (they had a nasty breakup)?

 

I'm confused. You say they've been divorced for almost a year, but you don't want to influence the divorce settlement?

If the cheat is a "friend twice removed," they are in fact divorced, and I sensed some chemistry with her, I would go for it. His cheating behavior however, would not be part of any conversation I would have with her. It's none of your business and brings nothing to the table.

 

Alt Focus:I slept/not-dated/was-FWB with a friends ex for about three months last year. He broke up with her, she was easily a high nine and she and I became friends over the length of their friendship. We didn't really talk much after the breakup but my friend gave me the green light a couple of weeks later. She and I hooked up after a drunken night out (which, my roommate and friend facilitated, not me) and I told him a week later when I saw him next. Everything was golden between him and I and it's never been brought up since.

Currently, the MILF I'm sleeping with is separated from her husband (who I was never friends with). The two of them accidentally had a kid two years ago and had a shotgun wedding. They tried making it work but the two of them are quite different people and it was never a good fit. I've known her about a year and I didn't go close to touching her until she moved out of his place and was on the track of divorce. I wasn't the catalyst that broke their marriage either, it was some other guy; I also avoid any conversation pertaining to their marriage as it's none of my business nor do I want to be mixed up in it.

Focus: I think it's a bad idea to hit that shit unless you've got the green light from buddy or if you don't really care about your relationship with that friend. She's hot all but there's tonnes of single, not dated by friends women running around.

 

Fuck that cheating ass hole "buddy". Why should the OP get consent from the cheater when he could have given a shit less about his WIFE's? Fuck him.

While I agree that it brings nothing to the OP's table, I think it brings plenty to the lady's. I think iczorro should tell her about the cheating no matter what. Yea, it's probably counterproductive to his goals, but let's be serious. His goals are fucked. How does this end well in the slightest? Fucking the chick might get him some backlash, fucking the dude in court might get him more (via the revelations).

I don't really see how telling her is going to help her trust you. You've known this whole time and didn't let her know? There's going to be a stark contrast between your honesty and your trustworthiness. Inczorro, you know the situation best. I think you owe it to her as a matter of being a decent person to tell her about the cheating. I don't agree with people saying it's none of your business. I know you don't need more shit on your plate, but maybe it's not always about you?

Anyway, the whole deal is fucked. At least tell her about the cheating. Good luck with the rest of your plans.

Counter-Alt Focus: A few years ago, I had 2 best friends who didn't really like each other. Well, the lesser of the two decided to hook up with the other one's girlfriend. The guys and I confronted him but he showed no remorse and could care less about either our other friend or our feelings about what he did. So we kicked him out of our group and he transferred schools a few weeks later.

Sadly, the guy who got cheated on stayed with the chick for another month after that.

 

Alt. Focus: One of my current roommates is terrible about this. He feels entitled to every girl he finds attractive, calling mental dibs on them all. He gets irrationally upset if I or anyone else pursues any of these women, even if said women have straight-up told him they're not interested and there's no romantic history.

As the most recent example, he has a friend from college who he hangs out with every couple of weeks. He has a thing for this girl, but she's told him on multiple occasions, in college and since, that she only sees him as a friend. She's acted flirty toward me a couple times, to the point my roommate brought it up. Knowing his personality and not all that attracted to this girl, I promised him I wouldn't pursue her. I kept my word. She did, however, invite me out one night to party with a group of her friends. Nothing happened. My roommate didn't talk to me for nearly a week.

It blew over because I stopped responding to this girl completely, but c'mon, man. What if I'd actually liked her? That's bullshit he can act all butthurt about someone with whom he's never even went on a single date. This kind of thing happens frequently, though with less intensity. If he sees a girl he likes at a bar, even if he doesn't make a move, that chick is off-limits. It's ridiculous.

In his defense, I did get sloppy drunk and hooked up with a girl he was seriously crushing on at our Halloween party. Oops. Guess I didn't set a very good precedent.

 

Like others have said, his cheating on her is none of your business so don't bring it up. However if she asks about it or wonders out loud I'd tell her, or at least I wouldn't deny it.

Focus: I've never been in a serious relationship but I can understand that keeping ex's off-limits minimizes protential drama within the group or amongst friends. It's the other "rule" of dating that'd i've never understood; the rule that you're never supposed to date/hookup with your buddy's sister. Can someone explain this one to me? I don't have a sister, but unless your friends with a scumbag why would this be forbidden? Seems counter-productive if the idea is that you're looking out for your siblings that a known entity is disallowed but an unknown one is fine.

 

Seriously? Fuck your roommate. "Mentally calling dibs", what kind of bullshit is that? It's certainly painfully obvious if that's his attitude why none of these women have any interest in him. Honestly, if you're interested in one these women that he's "called dibs" on tell him to man the fuck up and get over it, and if he gets in your face tell him to fuck off. You don't owe him shit.

 

You only live once dude, and in the wise words of the grandpa from The Sweetest Thing: "you should of split them whiskers [if] when you had [get] the chance."

Go ahead and be moral dude, but if you want to fuck her: do it. I've passed up many o' pussy because my morals got in the way. And you know what happens then? You rarely get the chance again...and then you'll be married....and then you'll live in a world of "what could of be's".

Smash it.

 

Focus: Say nothing unless she straight up asks.

Alt Focus: A friend of mine whom I'll call Friend A, had a weird relationship with this girl and broke it off because she wanted to fuck him and he didn't feel "ready", whatever the fuck that means. Anyway, for weeks all he does is trash this girl. She's hot so I ask for the go-ahead and get it. Cue a week later and we're at the bar she's working at. I'm with my other guy friends and start hitting on her. She laughs it off and goes back to work. My guy friends look at me as if I just tried to lure a 7 year old into a van.

Me: "What? I got the go ahead and he's been talking nothing but shit about her."
Friend B: "Dude, seriously? Even though he said that, he didn't mean it."
Me: "What? Since when did saying something mean the exact opposite of what you said?"
Friend C: "Uh, he's still hung up on her."
Me: "Not my fault he didn't sack up and tell me himself."

I later learned that Friend B told Friend A told him everything and he got all butthurt over it. I then moved to Seattle and forgot about it until now.

 

I think shegirl's advice is sensible and full of wisdom, and I myself would steer away from such a shitsunami for at least a little while.

Of course once the divorce is official I'm pretty sure all bets would be off.

 

Alt. Focus: Now, I was actually the guy that dated the girl, and had my friend move in on her, so I was in the other position.

When I graduated high school, I went to a close, cheaper college for a few reasons. First, cheaper. Second, I wasn't ready to move out of my parents' house yet (sad, I know). Third, I had an (at the time) good paying job and I didn't want to leave all of my friends behind, as none of them were going away to school. Fourth, I had a girlfriend that was still in high school (let's not pretend that this wasn't the most important reason for me. It was).

So two years go by and magically, when she decides to go away to school, I decide I want to go away to school, too! While I could say it was because I got fired from said good paying job, that's bullshit. I really liked that girl and wanted to stay with her, so we went away to school together. My buddy, we'll call him "Sam," was also going to the same school, and he and I arranged to be room mates.

Sam and I had known each other for about 4 years. Sam was always shy and socially awkward, but I really didn't notice because he was in his comfort zone at home. When we went away to school, he completely and totally shut down socially. He never left the room, and the only people he talked to were me, my girlfriend, and my girlfriend's room mate (his ex-girlfriend).

So, two months into my first year away, my girlfriend and I break up. She is meeting new people and so am I, and it seemed like the thing to do. Sam, good buddy that he is, didn't even wait 24 hours to start hitting on her like it was going out of style. He took her for a two hour walk the night we broke up, and was calling her and Instant Messaging (this was circa 2003, when AIM was the big thing) with her constantly. I told him to knock the shit off, but he kept right on going. I told her not to do anything, but she told me I had no right since I had started casually dating someone else.

About a week and a half to two weeks after we broke up, I hooked up with a girl (we'll call her Jamie) in our room. My roommate told my ex-girlfriend, because he was using it as leverage to get into her pants. He figured that if she was angry at me, she'd throw him a mercy-fuck, as she had been telling him she didn't want to do anything with him because he was my roommate and friend.

Well, once he told her that, he ended up spending the night at her room. I told them both they could go fuck themselves. Sure, I hooked up with someone, but it wasn't her friend and roommate. Unfortunately, I still had to live with and see Sam every day, and it was all I could do not to punch him in the face.

I, meanwhile, had continued to hook up with Jamie, cause why the fuck not. It was a rebound thing, pure and simple.

Well, about a week after Sam spent the night with my ex, he started acting all dejected and depressed. He told me (I didn't ask, as I wasn't talking to him at the time) that the ex had told him she didn't want to see him anymore, because she still loved me. She also told Sam that the only reason they fooled around (The ex insists they never fucked) was because she was angry at me for hooking up with someone else, and he happened to be there. The ex ended it saying that she felt Sam manipulated her (he did) and she didn't want to see him anymore.

I went back and had a long, long discussion with the ex. Despite whatever she did with Sam (and really, who was I to act all jealous and butthurt when I was off hooking up myself), I still loved her, and we ended up getting back together.

Sam, of course, was pissed. What did he do? He went to Jamie, and told HER that I was back with my ex before I had a chance to do so and break things off properly. Jamie was pissed, which wouldn't have mattered to me much, except for one thing. Sam used that anger to hook up with her.

Sam and Jamie began to date, and in fact, dated the rest of the school year.

So, I was back with the ex, and between us we'd agreed to forgive and forget that whole month. Meanwhile, my roommate was dating the chick that I had hooked up with, and she was at our room constantly. She'd taken to calling me 'asshole.' I couldn't really contest the name: I was an asshole, and I should've broken whatever it was we had off with her before officially getting back with the ex.

Post script:

The ex is now the Wife. As I've mentioned before, my wife and I started dating in high school, and got married a few years ago. We've been together for 11 years now, with the exception of this one month span in 2003.

Jamie and Sam dated the entire school year. Two weeks after school ended, she dumped him. According to mutual friends, upon dumping him she told him that she only dated him to get back at me, and that she had cheated on him frequently during their relationship. Now, I don't know if that is actually true. My friends might have made it up to make me feel better, or she might have said it just to be a vindictive bitch to him for whatever reason (she was fucking crazy, I dodged a bullet). Either way, I haven't spoken with Sam since May of 2004, when that school year ended. Up until we went away to school, I considered him one of my best friends. After that, we never spoke again.

Scratch that: he left a drunk new years eve apology message on my cell phone the next New Years Eve. I was still angry with him so I deleted it after about two words.

I wrote an entire story about this with much more detail (and teeming with bitterness and exaggeration to fit my still-strong anger) a little while after it happened and submitted it to a website that posted it. Now, looking back, it all just seems so fucking stupid. I'll PM the link to anyone that is interested, not that it is hard to find.

 

I dated my brother's best friend, which is also my brother-in-law's little brother. (Family get together's are drunken messes.) My brother got extremely pissed off, and got all bitchy, because I was "stealing his friend." His best friend started spending more time with me than him. My brother got worried that what time his friend did spend with him, his friend would talk about me. Brothers don't want to hear that. Whether it is bad things about me, sexual things about me, or good things about me, my brother wanted guy time. My sister would also get pissed off at her husband, because his little brother was "being an asshole and trying to fuck her sister."The ironic part is, my boyfriend ended up breaking up with me through my brother. Yes, I have such great taste I know. Then, because I am evil, was young, and immature, I proceeded to move on to their next mutual best friend. That didn't go well either.

 

FOCUS: You don't make sense.

First off, you claim you're in a "great big diverse group" of friends, that you're a "friend", yet "he wasn't a friend of mine". That garbled thinking has got to go before you make your decision (although, most people don't ask unless they've already done the deed or there really is no chance of doing it. Just sayin'.).

I've had a few friends get divorced out of our group. Guess what? Both people don't stay in the group. One of the divorcees stays put, the other ventures out with new friends. It's highly doubtful that the group dynamic has not shifted through a divorce where (most of the group) knows that cheating has taken place. If the girls knew of Ex's cheating, I guaran-fucking-tee the girl does. If both are still involved with the group, I'm sure it's (mostly) Ms. 9 with the girls, and Ex with the guys.

I know you've got yourself all excited about tapping that booty, but (unless the deed's already done) you better check yoself before you wreck yoself. Do you find that she comes to you on advice about her ex? Do your conversations with her involve him often? Is she still hung up on him? Do they still occasionally hook up? Kids? If the answers to any of these are "yes", you stay the fuck away from her.

If you've already fucked her, I'll see ya on Maury.

 

FOCUS:Am I missing something? iczorro said they've been divorced nearly a year, but everyone seems to be treating it as if they've been separated nearly a year. It might be trans-Pacific differences, but over here you're "separated" until you can get your decree absolute from the Family Court after, generally, 12 months. Then you're divorced. Two different states of being.

And then, is this guy a friend or an acquaintance? Do you hang out socially outside the group? Is he a guy who you'd think to ask for help if you needed it, or vice versa? (or any number of other lame, non-quantifiable reasons for determining friendship)

If he's a friend, you steer clear. There's too much shit. If he's an acquaintance, and they're actually divorced, it's fair game. What they had is done and gone, and it's been enough time.

As for telling her, what could it achieve? I agree everyone has a right to know the truth but it's not going to improve her life any. She's broken her ties with him, his fucking around can't hurt her now as it would back then (and really, if none of your group made any attempt to alert her or stop his behaviour when it was happening then that's deplorable and he can't be that good of a friend to anyone). Plus, it's going to come out that you knew and did nothing. Just imagine how that's going to make her feel. "Everyone knew what he was doing behind my back, and no one said anything?" I would think that the only scenario in which she should be told would be coming from him or if they were going to get back together and he wasn't going to tell her (it's blackmail, but fuck it - she deserves to know in that situation).

I'd also question whether she already knows or at least has a suspicion. You don't mention the reasons for the divorce, but I'd hazard a guess that it's in the mix.

ALT FOCUS: I haven't been with anyone that someone has had dibs on, but I've had friends who have hooked up with girls that another friend has had massive crushes on for years and done nothing about. The answer is always the same, "you had your chance and you blew it."

The closest I've come is fucking someone and subsequently found out that they'd hooked up with a friend prior to me. I have no problem with that, I didn't know. She then proceeded to flip out slightly, even though she knew the friend and I knew each other before she did it.

 

I've never been in a situation like this because I have the "whenever my friends hook up with a girl she immediately becomes unattractive to me" syndrome. It's in the DSM-IV, look it up.

However, I did have an experience similar to D26's- went away for a few weeks in the summer while dating a girl, my best friend hooked up with her and started dating her, don't talk to once best friend anymore. He also started doing really bad remixes of MGMT songs, so that might have had something to do with it as well.