Adult Content Warning

This community may contain adult content that is not suitable for minors. By closing this dialog box or continuing to navigate this site, you certify that you are 18 years of age and consent to view adult content.

Ukraine Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kindalas, May 6, 2014.

  1. kindalas

    kindalas
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    56
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    611
    Location:
    Ottawa Canada
    Fucking Russia and it's slow motion invasion.

    I know it is political but as we have moderation again I'm sure threats of a 3 day ban will keep everyone honest.


    Focus: Discuss Ukraine I'm tired of trying to filter through the propaganda every day to find the truth.

    Alt-Focus: Best propaganda pieces.
     
  2. Nettdata

    Nettdata
    Expand Collapse
    Mr. Toast

    Reputation:
    2,885
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    25,886
    "3 Day Ban"... how cute. Be civil, be smart, or else I'll be overcompensating for my absence with a disproportionate response of my own.


    I just wish they'd bring this guy back:



    I'm sure he could use a job.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
    Expand Collapse
    Just call me Topher

    Reputation:
    954
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    22,774
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    The problem is here is that Putin is an old-world sociopath. He does not feel feelings, he would kill everybody on the earth as long as he was declared King Of The Corpse Pile. He's a bully, homophobic, woman-hating murderous ex-KGB psychopath.

    What Putin seems to not realize is that this isn't CCCP Boogeyman days where he could truly throw the fear back at the USA for their sanctions. Back then, it was an even Steven non-war. Now, the USA has an armed forces more powerful than the next twelve largest armed forces on the plant combined. The largest Air Force. A Naval Fleet 10 times that of Russia. Second largest infantry. The most advanced weapons. Putin is under the impression he can put up a fight all the while breaking every human rights violation there is.

    KLITSCHKO FOR PREZ
     
  4. Nettdata

    Nettdata
    Expand Collapse
    Mr. Toast

    Reputation:
    2,885
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    25,886
    Out of this whole mess, I find this to be quite interesting: <a class="postlink" href="http://rt.com/usa/156240-spacex-musk-injunction-russia-rockets/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://rt.com/usa/156240-spacex-musk-in ... a-rockets/</a>

    Basically, as I understand it, the US has put a whole bunch of sanctions onto a bunch of Russian men of power, so much so that the Russians have started to tell NASA to go fly a kite up to the ISS for all they care.

    Enter a bunch of US types that then start the process of buying up a crapton of Russian rockets that can be used to resupply the ISS in the hopes that they can take over, but in the process apparently violate the sanctions.

    Elon Musk, the real-world version of Tony Stark, calls a press conference to point that out, and gets the deal put on hold pending an investigation, all while pointing out that his ALL AMERICAN COMPANY, Space-X, can do what those rockets can, cheaper. Never mind that there's no bidding process in place for this stuff.

    More old-boy graft networks in action, but hopefully it'll work out for Elon... I want him to succeed... oh sooo badly.
     
  5. Nettdata

    Nettdata
    Expand Collapse
    Mr. Toast

    Reputation:
    2,885
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    25,886
    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/elon-musks-spacex-granted-injunction-in-rocket-launch-suit-against-lockheed-boeing/2014/04/30/4b028f7c-d0cd-11e3-937f-d3026234b51c_story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html</a>

    Here's the press conference where he brings up his points.

     
    #5 Nettdata, May 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  6. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
    Expand Collapse
    Just call me Topher

    Reputation:
    954
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    22,774
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    Also, Putin is shirtless more than Randy from Trailer Park Boys. What is the deal with that?

    Black Jesus, I await your Putin memes.
     
  7. Noland

    Noland
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    41
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,237
    Location:
    New Orleans
    While all of this is true, so what? What are we going to do? Send in The Marines to invade Crimea?

    Also, big surprise, Putin's reported 97% voter turnout for the Crimean annexation turned out to be bullshit.
     
  8. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
    Expand Collapse
    Just call me Topher

    Reputation:
    954
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    22,774
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    No, Putin just needs to understand he's not holding the cards he think he did. God forbid it came to war, the winner would not be a coin toss like the good old days. I mean, Russia has to use American celebrities to fund their space missions!

    And that 97% thing, of course that was a lie. Everything he says is a lie. It doesn't help when you have a cabinet that is so scared of you that they'll do nothing except give him good news and blow smoke up his ass.

    Ukraine is a country that deserves help, however that help may be. It's people have wanted to join the West since the fall of the USSR, but can't because oligarchs invented their own status and funds and took everything from them. You should seethe exclusive cul-de-sacs these monstrously corrupt "entrepreneurs" live on. Entire streets lined with billionaire's houses while people around them starve without electricity.
     
  9. Juice

    Juice
    Expand Collapse
    Moderately Gender Fluid

    Reputation:
    1,395
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    13,483
    Location:
    Boston
    My favorite argument from Russia is that there's ethnic Russians in Crimea as a justification. It's technically true, but Stalin went into Crimea in the 30's, booted or killed all the residents, and moved ethnic Russians in.
     
  10. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
    Expand Collapse
    Just call me Topher

    Reputation:
    954
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    22,774
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    So lame. There's lots of Russian immigrants in Brighton Beach too, that that mean Putin gets to annex Brooklyn?
     
  11. kindalas

    kindalas
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    56
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    611
    Location:
    Ottawa Canada
    I think that the biggest problem with Putin is that he has been surrounded by yes men for so long that he is starting to lose perspective and go crazy.

    So he has some serious head of state whore logic guiding his decisions.

    Basically "liberating" Crimea is the "it's not cheating we used a condom" of the international community.
     
  12. Chellie

    Chellie
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    From CNN: 'Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov ruled out holding a second international meeting in a bid to defuse the crisis in Ukraine, also saying it would be "unusual" to hold a presidential election in the country when the army was being deployed against the population.'

    Russia really doesn't want this election. Can we lay bets on whether or not the country will be stable enough to hold it on the 25th, or if those pesky eastern 'Ukrainians' (ie Putin's instigators) will conveniently ramp up the action to the point it can't be held safely? Losers get drunk online and send increasingly nude pics.

    More than the American response, I'm intrigued by the Germans in this conflict. It will be interesting to see how much muscle they flex if this goes past sanctions, given that Merkel has said she'll “see to it that the elections can take place”.
     
  13. katokoch

    katokoch
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    477
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,631
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Is this really any of the United States' or UN's "business" yet? Ultimately do we have to get involved if Russia continues forward? How does it affect us here in the long run?
     
  14. Chellie

    Chellie
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Given the situation with the oil lines that go through Ukraine (disagreements over which arguably started all this) to the rest of Europe, I think the west is making this it's 'business' based on the economic impact this will have across Europe. Granted the conflict itself is already pulverizing the Ukrainian and Russian economies, I think the figure is something like one third of Europe's natural gas is going through that area, and that's significant enough to fight over.
     
  15. shimmered

    shimmered
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    351
    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    4,469
    I would rather is fight a real army, defined enemy, and real government crazy pants than fight the loosely defined and easily camouflaged "insurgents" we've dealt with for the past 15 years.
     
  16. Robbie Clark

    Robbie Clark
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    17
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    357
    Who gives a shit about Europe? If they can't get enough natural gas from other sources, well, that's no more the US government's business than it is if Venezuela runs out of oil. Now that I mention that, maybe that's the whole game anyway. Fuck Russia up enough so that they're not a player in natural gas, while the US has a shitload of it.

    Let's not forget various "NGO"s stirring up this Ukrainian conflict in the first place. The West isn't swooping in as some savior, any more than they did in Libya, or wanted to do in Syria.

    Crown Royal's posts are his typical foreign/economic policy insanity. The US and British governments together couldn't pacify Iraq or Afghanistan. Do you think Putin, who is crazy, but not a fucking idiot, cares one bit about US threats?
     
  17. Chellie

    Chellie
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    ... Are you trolling? Or you could be sarcastically mocking Crown Royal, I'm not sure.

    If you're asking 'who gives a shit about Europe' in all seriousness, and globally impacted economics aren't sufficient enough reason for the west to care, here are some others:

    1. Potential for Civil War. Ukraine has twice the population of Syria, and 10x the population of Bosnia. NATO was willing to put troops on the ground for Bosnia, do you think if this conflict progresses to that extent in Ukraine, NATO won't care?

    2. If Russia takes Ukraine, it joins countries like Belarus and Kazakhstan (former soviet regions), and an historical trend of saying 'um, fuck no, you're not going to be friends with those western democracies' to other westward trending places like Georgia. Gee, doesn't that look really familiar? Kind of like things are going to be a little less 'former' soviet?

    So again you say 'who gives a shit?'. If you honestly think massive economic fall out, the potential for years worth of armed combat/dead soldiers, and a revisiting of the good ol' Russia v Everyone days isn't going to effect everything from how much you pay for things to Iran getting more and more dangerous to the west now that their best friends own half of Eurasia, then you don't understand the words 'global' or 'foreign relations.'
     
  18. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
    Expand Collapse
    Just call me Topher

    Reputation:
    954
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    22,774
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    Ah, I see. You once again didn't read my posts as opposed to the personal vitriol you have towards me. I mentioned a comparison of armed forces. And that's "insanity". Did you read anything else I was talking about, or are you just going to bitch and post your own retarded opinions on how we should flush a continent down the toilet?

    What has Europe given us, except the entire modern foundation of society?
     
  19. Robbie Clark

    Robbie Clark
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    17
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    357
    If you give a shit about Europe, go join the fight in the Ukraine against those evil reds. But arguing that other countries and their armies need to get involved, that's a different matter. Economic sanctions are also stupid because they do exactly the opposite of their supposed intentions.

    None of that stuff is a given Chellie, and all of those effects would be the result of insanity. If no natural gas ever made it from the East to Europe through Ukraine ever again, the world would keep on turning, and the economies of various countries would be fine. There are other places to get natural gas, and you don't have to go to war to make it happen.

    NATO (IE - the US) can harp all it wants about Russia, but it isn't going to do shit or show any force because it would lose. Russia is too large and sophisticated a nation, as backward as it might be, for NATO to do anything about at all so anything it says or does is insane.

    Crown, I have no personal vitriol toward you in the least. There are probably 100 things you know about that I'm clueless on, but the Constitution and foreign policy aren't 2 of them. That's all.

    Thank you Europe for colonization I guess?

    P.S. - Iran is not dangerous to the West in any capacity.
     
  20. Chellie

    Chellie
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada