I think the alternate point to Jwags point is that fucking your children with years of college loans isn't the right way to teach fiscal responsibility. Especially after years and years of "YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE! YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE! YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE!" then get a "OH BY THE WAY, YOU'RE GOING TO BE FUCKED PAYING FOR IT UNTIL YOU'RE 55." Goddamn Obama didn't finish paying his loans until he was halfway through his first term. That's fucking ridiculous if your parents could have just kept that monkey your back, but didn't. There are other ways to do it. You're acting like college loans is the make or break fiscal responsibility lesson and he's spoiled for saying something. It's not like they're paying for EVERYTHING. College isn't a PS4 and big screen TV. Parents are supposed to pay for their child's education. Especially when college tuitions are becoming a joke unless you're goddamn Stephen Hawking or a freak athlete. Fucking your child over with college loans isn't the end all be all of parent to child fiscal education. Also, re: clothes. My parents in high school, the most crucial fucking time of identity building and anything else fucked me over so hard on the clothes front. I'd have like 5-6 shirts max at any time and like 3-4 pairs of pants. My parents acted like clothes were a huge luxury (once again, upper middle class). We'd go shopping, then my parents wouldn't just let me take my clothes to my room, my mom would hold on to my clothes until I earned them. Of course the metrics weren't anything practical/fair like good grades or doing set chores. It was basically like "You have to be my go-for bitch for a week, pay me a certain amount of compliments, get dragged around to all these stupid errands I don't really need you for and not complain 1 word about it at all." Pretty sure out of a set of like 5 shirts, between the time we bought it and she gave I gave them to me, I out grew 2 of them.
Easy on that one. It is nice if they can but after high school you are your own responsibility. My parents said they would provide transportation (I had a 12 year old bronco with 200,000 miles on it but they kept it running) but they wouldn't pay tuition. We could go away to college or hit the local IU branch, didn't matter. They could have paid for it, they had the money but that's their money, they earned it and they can spend it how they want. They weren't pushing college as a must so for parents pushing kids to go to college they could pay off the loans when their kid graduates on time if they choose. Student loans are ridiculous and unless you're a doctor/lawyer/engineer college really isn't worth the cost (aside from jobs that require a bachelors/masters but even then many don't pay well enough to justify it) but in no way do I think parents who can are required to pay for their child's education.
Thats another point. My peers in HS and my friends that I mentioned in earlier examples were taught from middle school on that college is the next, and only, step. My HS had 405 out of 417 go to college, and 8-10 of those 12 ended up in the military. While college is a luxury to many, for myself and others I went to college with, it was a nearly non-negotiable necessity. So in that situation, the financial burdens seemed more inevitable and not a choice. Hell I had no idea that plumbers, electricians, etc... made REALLY good money until I was in my 20s. It likely wouldn't have changed my decision, but I know people who it most likely would have if they had known.
Same thing with my high school. If it got out that you weren't going to college, you were treated like an outcast. Where I grew up, where you were going to college was the dominant topic of conversation among the PARENTS. It was treated like bragging rights and people would talk tremendous amounts of shit about the kids going to community college. The gossip circles were awful. "Did you hear that the Thompsons are sending Steven to FSU?" "Wow, he must not have done well on his test scores. Why would anyone send their child to THAT derelict school? "I wouldn't do that. I want the best for my children. I wouldn't let them be caught dead at community college either." These are things that I actually heard from people. They treated where their kids go to school the way parents of child athletes treat those kids.
I suppose living in the RV capital of the world we all knew that there were high paying jobs just waiting for us to graduate high school. You could walk out of graduation and be making $35-50,000 immediately if you got into one of the better companies so we didn't necessarily have the pressure that some of you clearly did.
The paying for college thing is a discussion my wife and I had early, and we're already saving money for both my kids college funds (keep in mind, one of my kids is 3 weeks old, but we already have a decent amount set aside for him). That said, the kids will know there are conditions on getting and keeping that fund going. 1) absolutely no less than a 3.0 high school GPA, and no F's ever, under any conditions. 2) An after school job (Only exception is if they are in lots of extracurriculars or sports, and can't work. Then we'll help them out). No extras, though? Get a job. 3) we will buy their car, but they're paying for gas and maintenance (again, though, flexible depending on how much they do for school extracurriculars or sports). 4) Maintain a 3.0 GPA in college. One semester warning, two semesters in a row below 3.0 and the money train ends, and the loans begin if they want to stay. We won't pay for them to dick around and party and ignore classes. May lower this to 2.8 depending on their situations, but there will be a GPA like they can't go below without losing their parental funding. 5) we will pay for 4 years. No more. If you end up taking 5, you'll need loans for the last year. I, personally, don't think we're asking anything unreasonable. They can choose any career they want, I don't care. So long as they meet the above requirements.
I'm saying parents should tell their kids they have options once they graduate high school, and making a reasonable investment in your own education* can help build financial responsibility in addition to getting a degree- no it's not supposed to be some be-all end-all sink or swim life lesson bullshit, and I do think something like what D26 is planning sounds smart too. Just don't hand it to your kids. I went to a high school where the expectation was to go to a 4-year school afterwards too (and over half did), and my high school counselors helped sell that fraud. However what I heard at home was "College can be a good investment" and I'm pretty sure choosing to get that degree and making the most of it hasn't fucked me over. I do agree pushing everyone towards a 4-year degree is bullshit, or the thought of forcing college on them too. I'm sure you have high school classmates that shouldn't have gone to college in the first place but did because of their parents or whatever reason. What if it was up to them? Maybe they would have explored other options like a trade school or working to save money. If you're just going to end up buried in loans with a worthless degree in hand, you shouldn't do it in the first place- that's why I say reasonable investment. You can keep spinning that into hyperbole if you want but that's all.
Re: clothing. There were TWO summers that my little brothers blew (literally) through their shoes in a matter of DAYS. I'm talking - my mom bought them shoes and by the end of the week they looked like Teva sandals because all of the pleather stuff that made up the outside of the shoe just...died. As a parent, you'd think those'd be replaced, right? Nah. She made my brothers wear them for several weeks before replacing them. We were going to a Boys & Girls Club of America while mom was in class, and my brothers got to be known as AC boys (air conditioned boys) because you could see their toes and their feet even when they were wearing shoes. I honest to God wonder if my mom even NOTICED when things didn't fit. To this day, I have no idea whether she did or not.