Parenting is an art. Every parent is different and every child is different, so every parent child relationship is different..... blah, blah, blah. Within certain boundaries, I don't think anyone has a right to tell a parent how to raise their child. Of course, things like physical and sexual abuse are outside the boundary. But, so is allowing the child leniency to be rude and violent to outsiders. If a parent wants to smack a child to discipline them, so far as it is done sensibly, no one should have the right to tell them they can't. By the same token, if a parent is happy for their child to punch, kick and scratch them that's their decision. Anyone else is entitled to say they don't agree with it, but it's not their child and it's not their call. So if "tiger mothers" want to push their children to excel, that's their call. If they were forcing them to work in the salt mines and taking all their wages, it would be a different matter. As for me, I agree with smacking a child for disclipline. I have smacked my son when it's required. However, surprise surprise, I can't remember the last time I had to because he realises that he has to not cross that line. Now I can talk to him and get him to behave because he realises that they're not just empty promises... I will do it. A lot of people would consider that I'm hard on him in some respects. I harass him to say hello and goodbye to friends and family. I pull him up when he's loud or running around in public. I will not stand for the slightest sign of a tantrum. Some people think that's harsh. I consider it instilling good manners. Either way, he's my son and it's my call.
FOCUS: The Tiger Mother way: Love it? Hate it? Is it better than beating your child? I was raised by "Tiger Parents" myself and I hated it. My parents immigrated from Hong Kong over 25 years ago, speaking no English, working menial jobs (sometimes 2) to pay off their home and to support their 4 children. They knew it would be difficult for them to live here, but they did it in hopes that we would have a better life here. While this is a noble and valid sacrifice to make, they never let me forget the "debt" I owe them for doing so. Just reading the anecdotes in this thread pissed me off. Filial piety is the worst concept anyone can pull out of their asses and shaming anyone into obedience is one of the worst abuses one can inflict. An example of my childhood: One day when I was 5, my parents decided to teach me the multiplication tables. Their teaching method is to sit me down and had me recite the multiplication table in Cantonese until I memorized it from 1 - 12. So this went on for 2 weeks, at least 2 hours a day reciting and they would hit me they thought I was slacking (not reciting fast enough, generally sounding bored). Then after the 2 weeks, it was testing time. They sat me down for at least an hour each day and tested me, if I gave the wrong answer, I was hit. If they believe I gave a poor performance that day, they would deny me dinner and called me stupid, worthless, etc. Was it effective? Yes. Did I understand what multiplication means? No. But you can bet your ass I knew what the answer was when they gave me two numbers. As a result of their emphasis on my education, I skipped a grade in elementary school and generally had really good grades. They were very proud of themselves, and believe they were great parents. As a teenager I decided I wasn't going to take that shit anymore and rebelled hard. As an adult, I have a therapist on retainer. I personally believe the reason why they pushed me so hard to excel in school and be successful is because they expect me to help support them in their old age. Through out most of Chinese history, there was no such thing as a retirement fund, that's what kids are for! The more successful we are the better we can support them and they can indulge in their favorite pastime - passive aggressive bragging about their kids with their friends. It's what Charlie Sheen would call bi-winning.
I was taught the multiplication tables the same way, only my parents outsourced it to a nun. Tiger Mother Superior.
Yeah, that's one of my problems with the specifics of Asian parental teaching. The fundamental intent is laudable; teach your child a valuable skill and hard work from an early age, so they don't grow up to be the menial laborer you are. However, the execution leaves a lot to be desired. For one thing, it's all based on memorization, instead of actual understanding of the concepts. Pure memorization works great for many things, like the piano, but it's useless for math. All that time and effort on learning the multiplication table...and it's a complete freaking waste! Secondly, on a more personal opinion level, while there's nothing wrong with denying them video games or television, beating the child for an incorrect answer seems too Spartan. At some point, they have to develop a real interest and desire to learn themselves, not just through parental discipline. Push them in that direction, sure, but punishing them for an honest wrong answer? I don't know your parents, but it sounds to me like they were two lowly-educated immigrants who had no understanding of what a proper education was themselves or how to obtain it, but desperately wanted their children to be successful and avoid their own fate. They probably went about in an unsatisfactory manner, but I doubt they were only doing it for themselves. Spending 2 hours a day drilling a child on the multiplication table is no fun for anyone, doubly so if they don't care about the kid. I think any benefit from having the child being slightly wealthier is more than outweighed from all the time and pain suffered by the parents there.
SGEDIT: No. And if you want to know that bad then send her a PM or rep it. I'm sure she'd be deilghted to answer a question such as that.
I am, but only for two and a half years. I don't consider that to be experienced yet, though since she's two right now I do indeed consider it a challenge to say the least. Her latest drug of choice is wanting to PUSH THE FUCKING SMOKE ALARM TEST BUTTON OVER AND OVER. How she even discovered it in the first place is beyond me, but if you don't let her when she wants to then she throws a fit crying. Celebrate good times. Come on. I was an only child, just like my daughter will be. My parents were fair but much less prone to risk (a.k.a shitty curfews) and also very strict about respect to your edlers. Do NOT be smart with me. Do NOT talk back at all costs. DO what I say. And I did, because if you DIDN'T you got taken to school. I don't hate them at all for it, I had a pretty good childhood. I am just very different from my parents. They are stay-at-home wine-sipping upper classers, I would rather stand on the gas pedal and drop ecstasy at family weddings. This sums things up on here absolutely beautifully, especially since I live near UWO:
I'm going to take a stab here and guess you've never experienced FOB Asian family dynamics. It's understood that (at least in the Korean culture) the son will take care of their elderly parents, at least financially. The son's wife will physically take care of them (cooking and cleaning). In the past, daughters would try to marry rich, or above their station. At least now, if a daughter decides to have a career, she won't be disowned. Unless she isn't a doctor or some other high-paying job. Oh, and you're going to do this while all living under the same roof. Younger brothers and daughters generally joined their in-laws, especially if the elderly parents had no sons of their own. Grandkids were born and the cycle continued. This is how it's worked for thousands of years. I'm not saying it's right, but it certainly gives some kind of basis for how some Asian mothers act towards their kids. I'm sure that a majority of them want their kids to succeed just like any other race's parents, but like mindy said, there's was no way for someone to save for retirement when you're living hand to mouth. Push your kids to succeed not only for their benefit, but yours as well. This is especially true now in a world where with a little luck and lot of hard work, you could be set for life. If my mother wasn't married to her ex-military husband (with all the benefits of a Master Sergeant's pension and Social Security), I know she'd move in with me, regardless of my situation.
Not sure if this fits with the focus, but an interesting point of view on the article. http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/01/why_chinese_mothers_are_not_su.html
SGEDIT: Can we atleast try to stick to the focus please. Yeah yeah the joke was about Asians and homework but it's still a no go.
I am a housekeeper that works in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ann Arbor is probably the hippie capitol of the Midwest, so it's interesting to see what's going on inside those homes. While I do see many Tiger Mothers, here I see more awesome hybrid Hippie-Tiger mothers. People who don't own TVs because of the mind-rot their children could view. Instead their children listen to books on tape for entertainment. I've even seen a 4 year-old watching an online video about the evil repercussions of receding marshes how other little girls watch Dora the Explorer. They all listen to NPR and use environmentally friendly cleaning products. One of my most awesome moments with one of these women was when she came home from visiting her daughter's doctor. (Her daughter is about 3.)The doctor said her daughter may have anxiety issues. And part of the problem was that she was "over-intellectualizing" her child. She is one of those mothers that always asks their kid to make choices. "Do you want to wear your red boots today? Do you want to read this book now or after your nap?" Shit people. I know you want your kids to be independent and capable of making their own choices, but damn. You don't schedule your entire day around how your kid feels. I see this a lot. Goddamn hippies.
Sounds to me like the doctor is as much of a clueless idiot as the parents. A 3 year-old with "anxiety issues" who is being "over-intellectualized"?! Where do they come up with this bullshit? Oh, and one your "most awesome moments" occurred when someone's little child was diagnosed with a serious problem? (Correctly or not?) Do you squeal with glee at natural disasters, too?
I'm about as far from being a hippie as you can possibly get, but (with no science to back me up) I do think there is merit to environmentally friendly cleaning products. Question though, do they use homemade cleaners (vinegar in a spray bottle, baking soda, borax and citric acid for dishwasher detergent etc.) or do they buy the overpriced stuff with pictures of leaves with raindrops on the bottle? ...Pretty sure he/she (don't want to be sexist here) was being sarcastic.
I had a pediatrician try to convince me that my 14 year old daughter had been depressed since kindergarten and needed anti anxiety meds and antidepressants. I told him in no uncertain terms that he could shove that idea straight up his ass. I'm not saying either condition doesn't exist, but when they DO exist, they umbrella a person's entire life. That wasn't the situation with my daughter. I don't do those kinds of meds for my kids. No freaking way.