I don't buy into the philosophy of the title of this thread. As an Athenian, however, I'll bet my viewpoint is different from some of the Spartans and Persians on the Board. The 2442nd Anniversary of the invasion of Attica is this year. Let's talk about it. If we could do it in a civilized way, that would be swell. (HA!) FOCUS: The Peloponnesian War. Discuss.
I was just reading about this, interestingly enough. My dad ended up getting me a bunch of Victor Davis Hanson's books, and I've been enjoying them immensely. One thing that struck me was the ineffectualness of the conflict. The war lasted more than a generation, during which time most of the combat was lame and stupid; it was like clockwork. "Ookay, harvest is done. Let's go see if we can burn the other side's crops! Yay!" It was only after Athens lost badly at sea and was then struck down by plague that the Spartans could actually force a decisive end to the war.
I'd just like to say fuck Sparta and all Spartan supporters on this board. Your side is morally wrong, and I will continue to get my panties in a twist when this comes up even though I have less than 0% involvement.
I find the regional ethnocentricism of the focus to be offensive and limiting. What about the Punic Wars, huh? Don't want to talk about them just because Africa is involved? And don't even get me started on the Servile Wars.
Spartans weren't the bad asses they thought themselves to be. They routinely got their asses handed to them by the Athenians. There! I said it!
Everybody should go and read 'Gates of Fire' by Steven Pressfield. It is a fantastic book about the 300, but is a more accurate version of the story, making it 10000000 times better than the film (with the exception of 'THIS IS SPARTAAAAA').
Ehm, what the hell? The book is great, no doubt about that, but Pressfield actually fucking wrote a book about the Peloponesian War, called Tides of War. While a bit slow in places, nothing captured a 'fucked-up war-situation' better than his chapters about the Sicilian campaign. And seriously, while their whole ethos seems at least a bit kind of awesome, Sparta was a huge asshole. Their treatment of their vassals was way worse than anything the Athenians ever did. That's the lesson to be learned: Spartans are fun and game when the only thing they have to do is kill Persians. They're pretty much useless in all other aspects.
Also, the Spartans got completely butchered by the Romans when they came to say hi. They were excellent fighters on their home terrain, but then again considering Laconia was mountainous and almost impassable in spots, it didn't take much to do that. Victor Davis Hanson's book A War Like No Other is a pretty definitive volume on the Peloponnesian War. Edit: I read about Athens getting completely raped on the Sicilian campaign and immediately thought of it in Greek terms. Athens had a bit too much hubris there...
I'm taking a Hellenistic Greece history class at the moment. Turns out those hard-ass Spartans got their asses handed to them at Leuctra. Also, Pelopidas was more of a badass than Leonidas. But let me introduce you to the one true hard-as-nails conqueror of the age... Colin Farrell
Also, lets not forget that the Spartans weren't really alone at Thermopylae. According to Herodotus, the actual size of the final force was more like 1500+.
Hey, the Athenians got off a lot better than a lot of other conquered nations in that time period. Normally, for that time period, you'd just expect the place to get razed to the ground and everyone summarily slaughtered / enslaved.
All I can say is, the Melians can choke on a fat dick. Fuckin' playahatas. (And I'm serious. Oligarchs getting everyone killed instead of giving up their rule over a piss-ant island...)