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The War of Northern Aggression

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Noland, Apr 12, 2011.

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  1. Noland

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    I don't buy into the philosophy of the title of this thread. As a Southerner, however, I'll bet my viewpoint is different from some of the Northerners and Westerners on the Board.

    The 150th Anniversary of the firing on Fort Sumter is today. Let's talk about it. If we could do it in a civilized way, that would be swell. (HA!)

    FOCUS: The Civil War. Discuss.
     
  2. DrFrylock

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    Well, we missed the anniversary, but not the thread.

    The best book I ever read about the Civil War was Harry Turtledove's Guns of the South. Sadly, it's entirely fictional and involves time-traveling racists. However, his intimate characterizations of a number of people - from Lee on down to common soldiers - really humanized the war for me in a way that Catton and every TBS miniseries in the world never could.
     
  3. palmettosc

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    I wanna go on record as saying it was bullshit that Sherman burning my hometown to the ground. So cheap labor is frowned upon, but widespread arson is acceptable? I kid. But seriously, there's a special place in hell (or the bad afterlife of your own personal religion (see southerners are tolerant)) for that asshole.
     
  4. hoju

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    I'm going to sound like a travel agent.
    I want to encourage anyone who has any interest in US history, or just plain travel, to visit Fort Sumter, SC. It is pretty fascinating and downtown Charleston is historically beautiful. While you're there you can also visit Fort Moultrie. It has some historical significance as well.

    More importantly, if you do do to Moultrie, you are two minutes from Poe's Tavern. Its a dive bar all based on the fact that Edgar Allen Poe once served at Fort Moultrie during his brief stint in the Army. Its one of my favorite places in the world. And I've been in other parts of the world, not just the south.
     
  5. Aetius

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    Hearing Southerners talk about the civil war is like hearing a 40 year old man talk about a game he played in high school in which he lost by a huge margin, but like, could have won if only like, seventeen things had gone differently.

    Your cause was evil, your army got wrecked and Sherman pissed on the ashes of Atlanta. Get over it.
     
  6. iczorro

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    Inaccurate opinion: The Civil War was less about slavery than it was about State's rights.

    Though clearly, the freeing the slaves thing was an ultra positive benefit.
     
  7. palmettosc

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    This guy knows what he's talking about. My buddy has a house not 5 minutes from Poe's, great burgers and cheap beers two blocks from the beach on an island. Sumter is pretty well preserved as well, nothing has really been moved since the 1800s.

    Edit: What the fuck Aetius? Do you support the US bombing civilians in the middle east to get our point across? Make all the jokes about slavery and hicks you want, but that mans bullshit campaign badly effected the lives of hundreds of thousands of people who just lived there. You wanna make jokes about the south being backwards? Maybe if that bastard hadn't burned all our railroads only to see the south railroaded in reconstruction we would have been connected to the rest of the world much sooner. (Also in the south you are supposed to spit whenever you say sherman)
     
    #7 palmettosc, Apr 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  8. toddamus

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    Is it too late to let Alabama and Mississippi secede? Those two states are seriously worthless.
     
  9. PewPewPow

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    Texas is a country mmkay?
     
  10. hoju

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    I want to join in on Aetius' claim and then bow out because its late and I need some sleep
    I think we can all unanimously agree that slavery was wrong. Its a given. Its a fact.
    But this:
    wasn't the point.
    This was:
    Regardless of the shitty, often used comparisons, does this not apply to the medical marijuana or gay marriage debates?
     
  11. Aetius

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    Excerpts from:

    Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union :

    Georgia Article of Secession:

    Mississippi Article of Secession:

    Confederate Constitution (which differs from the US Constitution only in matters pertaining to slavery):

    Seriously, that shit was about slavery, full stop.
     
  12. palmettosc

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    Slavery was a horrible [and by that I mean profitable] thing and it was good that it ended. Does that still make up for the fact that after the war the south was treated worse than any other "nation" in modern history has/had been [excepting Germany after World War I, Israel since its inception, every Soviet Satellite, Africa, South America, Southeast Asia and let we not forget Poland]? This isn't even taking into account that some of the most valuable military leaders during the revolution were southerners. We [and by that I mean black people] did the work to build it and we wanted to opt out. The reason [which in case you weren't sure, was the keeping of human beings in perpetual bondage] shouldn't matter on account of the north having no complaints about receiving goods from the slave states before that time. The constitution was written then to the point where it was perfectly reasonable that the north should have at least worked with the south through the political process [like winning an election in which we refused to even put Lincoln on the ballot] instead of pulling a hardline and leaving the dissenting state with the options to either fire on the fort or bow down to (which at that point might as well have been a different world) the north's refusal [which is a fancy way of saying not-stealing-federal-property-via-armed-force].

    Edit: Aetius, everyone knows that owning people is wrong [although I have my suspicions]. I am not trying to say that the south didn't want [build our entire economy around and exercise all our political power to keep] slaves and that it wasn't a [the] point in the war. I'm getting at the horrible [fairly mild by historical standards] backlash the south faced afterwards and how it relates to the problems we have here now [which centuries of institutionalized racism are in no way responsible for]. The confederacy was treated worse after the war than any defeated party has been in the modern age (say 1900-till) [I chose these years despite the fact that the Civil War ended in 1865. We southerners are so irrationality focused on the war that we refuse to believe it's been 150 years]. Focusing on that one subject glosses over the fact that some of the oldest settlements in America were here [Y'know, white settlements. The ones that weren't in Massachusetts. Or pretty much anywhere in the original 13 colonies. Point is we had some history]. [Some of] The oldest [white] history in America was destroyed when it didn't have to be [and by that I mean when we went to war to defend slavery]. I am not well traveled and can't speak for anywhere else, but if I go 90 miles in an direction I can find some places that are from the heart of the birth of America [just like the roughly 1/3 of the American population that lives on the East Coast]. Imagine how much would be left if that cock-sucking son of a bitch hadn't burned it all down.
     
  13. palmettosc

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    You can't even engage in the conversation? Weak sauce. Just changing what I wrote? Can't even quote it and take it apart then?

    edit: I'm a mod, I do what I wawnt!
     
  14. palmettosc

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    And the first steps to everything that everyone hated about RMMB happens. Say hello to SLF everyone.
     
  15. DrFrylock

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    I thought 150 years was the statute of limitations on the no-politics rule but once again TiB proves me wrong.
     
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