The times, they are a-changin'

A couple things.

First - trap shooting and shooting sports in general. I belonged to a trap club for several months, and there were only a few kids who actually showed up to the youth program. The median age for trap and skeet shooters is around 55 years old, and it's not getting any younger. This isn't just hippie-ass Massachusetts being retarded; it's nationwide.

Second - The Boy Scout camp that I went to has gone from a rustic kick-ass wilderness spot held together by rope and duct tape to a Nature's Classroom resort. For example, the first year I went there, the docks were made of wood and had been in place for about thirty years. There were about a dozen campsites that were more than half a mile from the dining hall and the snack shop. The snack shop sold a bunch of knives and some pre-packaged candy. Upon entering the dining hall, silence was enforced before everyone said grace; if too many people were talking, then everyone got sent out and we got to do it again. If you wore your hat inside the dining hall, it was taken from you, and you had to sing I'm A Little Teapot in front of everyone else to get it back.

Today, it's none of these things. Thanks to complaints from parents, the docks are now plastic, all the campsites that aren't right next to the damn sugar shack have been closed, said sugar shack now sells everything from fried dough to Slush Puppies, and all customs from the ages-old ritual to get your hat back to the game show of "What Have You Lost Today" (Lost & Found) have been removed because they were "hazing."

When I first went to that camp, the place where everyone learned the wilderness merit badges - pioneering, hiking, wilderness survival, and so on, was out on the fringes of the camp, about half a mile from everything else. Today, it's right at the entrance. It's not Wilderness Survival; you can see the fucking parking lot when you're taking the badge.

There have been a lot of improvements made to the camp, don't get me wrong. When I first showed up to the camp, the leadership was so terrible that they had problems with kids being lost and found at the swimming area because they were so lax with their policy. The food was unsanitary, the latrines were awful, and the shooting range instructor was so deranged that he would shoot up in the air if the kids weren't fast enough at picking up their targets. But with improving these, everything else just took away the flavor of the place. It's not a camp anymore; it's a classroom, a vacation spot, a resort. It's just not a camp.

Nowadays, my troop is probably going to go to some spot in upstate New York for the years to come. It's too bad, because that camp has been around since the twenties. My Scoutmaster had fond memories of going there, as did his Scoutmaster. But that's what happens when the yuppies take over and don't want Little Jimmy to have to walk more than a quarter mile to get his sugary beverages. Thanks a lot, assholes.

 

Well, one thing we can always count on throughout the ages: masturbation.

 

You would think.

 

I think that as a society we are becoming immune to certain ideals that used to be a necessity.

#1. Being civil/polite.
This was probably invented a long time ago to keep people in some kind of semblance of order.
If you bump shoulders with a guy who's carrying a three foot sword, you bet your ass that you said excuse me.
Because, if you didn't, he would fucking kill you.

#2. Patience.
Long gone. I'm as guilty of it as anyone. If I have to wait longer than fifteen minutes in line with my groceries, I leave.
Right out the door. The store wants to save a few bucks by not opening more than two of the fifteen check stands that they have.
I'll go somewhere else.
You used to have to have patience because, shit took time. The checker didn't scan all that shit, they had it all memorized and manually typed the code/price in. (They also used to have ashtrays on the shopping carts. Kinda cool.)

#3. Education.
As it has been previously beaten into the ground, my .02$.
You can download classes from Yale & Harvard on i-tunes.
When I was in school we had to use encyclopedias, dewey decimal, fucking micro-film.
We had computers sure, they were called calculators.
I'm not saying that I would of done better in school with all the hi-tech shit, but it sure would of been easier.
I personally think that the smart people we have around now, are pretty goddamn smart. I just wish they'd run for office.

 

You've got your basic information correct, however, your body learns to recognize those specific viruses, not all viruses. So, exposure to Virus A gives you future immunity to virus A; if you're exposed to virus B, your body won't recognize it and needs to develop new antibodies all over again. This is why you only get chickenpox once, for example. Seasonal flu viruses change pretty much every season, which is why you can keep getting a flu every year for the rest of your life. Getting virus A at 20 years old is, all things considered, probably better than getting it at 80 years old, but getting virus A at twenty years old has no bearing on getting virus B later in life.[/quote]

I read your post at 9 this morning before work, thought about posting, decided to wait 8 hours to think about, and decided to go ahead and post anyway.

You totally and utterly missed the point Diablo was making. To call some an "ignorant fuck" because "they are just like the people who were against vaccines" when he mentioned NOTHING ABOUT vaccines is called a strawman argument. His point was the modern person being obsessed with nuking everything with chemicals...a very VALID point that you do not address at all. And the immune system can be manipulated in several ways...the average person does not realize how much exercise can strengthen your immune system, as opposed to just napalming your house with lysol. If properly informed, I think most would choose the more natural, albeit less popular route.

You cite no references, give no input. For all intents and purposes you trolled the fuck out of this. What background have you with this subject? Med student? PhD?

Feel free to PM back with some proper info...just don't accuse me of saying that dinosaurs never existed or anything.

FOCUS: I miss the days when people would actually look at you in the eye and could actually hold a conversation. If I have to talk over your damn headphones, or if texting is your primary form of communication, then I'm afraid we could never be friends.

 

-Having to remember a phone number. Once it's in my phone, it's outta my mind. I used to have 30+ phone numbers committed to memory. Now, I can barely remember your name unless there's a profile pic to associate with it.

-Making plans. Before cell phones, you made plans and had to KEEP THEM. No texting to say you'll be late, etc..... I have to go tell the whippersnappers to get off my lawn now...

 

References? This is neither the 'Ask A Scientist' thread nor a journal. Even if it were, you wouldn't need to reference the basic immunological facts Ghetto posted. Furthermore, you work in a bank; who are you to ask for PhD credentials? Ghetto was very correct in all he said; pick a less intelligent poster to start meaningless fights with.

Focus: Having standards in musical appreciation. I'm not saying everyone has to love only the 'classic' artists or anything, but a lot of current artists who are called songwriters and are lauded for their superior way of crafting lyrics still largely product things devoid of meaning. Not that I'd even go looking to rap for education or anything, but they can't even stay on topic for a whole verse, let alone song. Today's concept album has five out of fifteen songs that mention a certain topic; where's Marvin Gaye's ability to actually express a concept throughout an album (What's Going On?)?

 

Long Form Thinking and Paying Your Dues.

Sure the Internet is great because you can find any series of facts you want, and can find a few different beginner to mid level explanations. But I believe that true critical thinking – expert thinking – is as rare on the Internet as it has been anywhere. Real experts are not incented to post their knowledge or experiences for free, so if that information is on the Internet it typically is behind a paid site barrier, and thus not available via Google.

I believe that the instant gratification of the Internet age has led the Internet Generation to being less able to digest a set of information around all sides of an issue, think about it for a while, then issue a reasoned response. Instead, the Internet seems to foster having a lot of facts available very quickly, and then shouting them as loudly and as quickly as possible and burying your opposition in the ensuing noise and peripheral distractions.

I believe that the Internet Generation is ideally suited to be very good on short term tactical measures and responses, but is very badly suited to be very good on long term strategic measures and thinking. The idea of working at something diligently over time to gather perspective and expertise does not seem to tie in well with the instant gratification world of today.

As to an earlier point that the top end of the curve is better than ever, that is probably true. Unfortunately, the true strength of any economy is the solid middle, and I am less sure that the solid middle is as good as it has been in the past in the US.

I believe this plays into politics as well as the economy, as our political system has devolved into two parties taking edge position sound bites that don’t matter and obsessing over them, rather than taking a centrist position and working out, in a slow and boring fashion, some of the very real and very difficult issues and decisions facing us these days.

I worry about the future.

 

Ghettoastronaut may have been correct with his facts but he wasn't totally relevant in his response. Rising Sun has a perfectly valid point about the strawman argument. The point Diablo and Rising are getting at is the link between the increasingly sterile environment kids live in and the associated illnesses like increased instance of allergies or asthma.


Credential disclosure edit: I am not an immunologist, or a biologist. But, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

Not sure if this is the place to add this or if it should be a PM, or just kept to myself, but I'll just go with it.

I think that today we are heading towards the extremes in regards to knowledge. The smart people today have a lot more knowledge than people did 100 years ago (not saying they're smarter, just know more) and the dumb people know less than previous generations.
In high school we had about 20 out of 400 students who were capable of leaving a lasting change in the world. My assertion here is that years ago there would be a lower percentage of students with that ability, but the ones who didn't have that ability 100 years ago were more intelligent than the ones who don't have that ability today.

I occasionally have trouble putting thoughts clearly down on paper (something this board is helping me with), so feel free to PM me if you would like me to clarify any of that.

 

I personally have never cared for many historical traditions as I think a good portion of them are stupid and irrelevant. For example, the whole Christmas thing is just one giant consumerist holiday to most people instead of it being family oriented like it should be. I am indeed starting my own traditions. My entire family is very dysfunctional and never did anything for any reason. As a result I'm trying to teach to my kid brother (with no real role models to speak of) the value of hard work, the value of trust, how to hunt, fish, tie knots, build fires, general outdoor stuff, and how to be a fun and interesting man as he gets older. I will also be teaching my son the same when he gets old enough.

There are not enough men stepping up to the plate to take care of their children. The repercussions are too many people are becoming fucking douchebags with skewed outlooks on life and no moral compass to speak of. Crazy people result.

 

How did you learn how to do this stuff? I have always wanted to learn how to hunt, fish, start a fire, but never learned how. I grew up in Suburbia, my parents were both city kids, and I didn't do scouts or anything after the derby car race when I was like 7. I am 28 and I have never been camping. Serious question - if I have no friends who do this, what is a good way to learn about hunting, and fishing?

Focus Dinner Parties. I recently moved to Chicago from Philly, and haven't met many people yet, but my wife has a ton of co workers and friends that get together for parties and the bar all the time. (well as much as a bunch of residents who work 60-80 hrs a week can get together), but it seems that no one ever gets together for dinner parties, cocktails at their own homes, etc, the way my parents and friends would when they were in their 30's. Maybe this comes later in life, but dammit I love to cook, and I want it to be time now!

 

This.

Luckily I'm the product of a father and mother who have been there for me, no matter what shit I got into. I'm pretty straight-laced, don't get into a lot of trouble, and what trouble I did land myself in my dad actually helped learn from it and not do it again. More impressive considering his dad was for most of the time a piss-drunk lazy ass who never went anywhere with his life except to the nearest bar (and was dragged back home by dad).

What fucking kills me is when I hear about my friends' parents getting divorced while the dude is STILL a teenager. The most volatile and difficult time of pre-adulthood is where the parents choose to crap out on providing a stable family? Yeah, real fuckin' role models there.

 

Here's a list published by U.S.A. Today on 25 trends that changed America:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/top25-trends.htm

 

Agreed. I knew a kid whose parents were just tearing each other apart and were trying to stay together exactly for that reason. He was suffering for it, because he felt that he was the only thing holding them together. That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid.

Eventually, they pulled the plug on the marriage and split up. He's doing fine; his parents made up now they don't have to live with each other, and more importantly the kid isn't caught in the middle of their dispute.

 

When I was a child, I would spend my summers at a ranch my father used to work on. Even though no one else around me really used to fish, my grandfather took me out once and that was enough to get me on the water by myself from the time the sun came up until the it went down. The real hunting and major outdoor stuff I didn't get into until I hit about 23 or so due to not having access to a car where I can travel. (I lived in the city almost my entire life)

What started me was again a love of just being outside to begin with. From there I started meeting people at school who shared similar views, joined various messageboards (Bill Dance Outdoors, Survivalistboards, BushcraftUSA, Camospace, etc) and just talking to random people I happen to meet. I even met up with two fisherman from the old board.

The best way to start out is by just taking off one day and doing it.

 

Very rarely is the relationship with the parents ever as close as it was though. The parents end up marrying step-parents who, for a good portion of occurrences, either alienate the kid and fuck them up even more emotionally, or are outright rejected because they can never be considered a true "mom". I know kids who have great relations with step-parents and those who want to cut the steps' throat at the next possible opportunity. In my experience it's overwhelmingly in the latter though.

I should perhaps clarify that divorce at any age completely screws with kids, not just teenagers of course. There's no relationship quite like one has with the people who have raised you as their own and given you a peaceful, loving place to call home. But teenagers are especially troublesome because of their obvious emotional and mental rollercoasters and all the shit they get into.