Two reasons, and it's plain neither applies in your case: 1. There's no verification or audit (at least in this state) that the money is actually spent on the kids. So $2K a month could go towards food, shelter, school, etc., or it could go towards some implants and airline tickets. And she will face no legal sanction for choosing the latter course. 2. If a father fails to fulfill his support obligations, he will be called a deadbeat dad, scorned by all, hounded to the ends of the earth, and eventually put in jail. If a mother fails to fulfill her visitation obligations and decides to keep the kids away from their father, she will face no legal or social sanction for doing so. To forestall the inevitable red dots, I'm not saying that any of this applies in anyone's particular case, but we've all heard the stories and this is the thought process.
The child support agency here has about as much power as our equivalent of the IRS: - They know what my taxable income is before I do; - They arbitrarily decide what my income will increase to next year, and charge me according to that; - Unless you have have your kid more than 1 night a week, you bear 100% of the expenses in the calculation. Days do not count, it's where they sleep overnight; - They decide what amount of your income is preserved from the calculations for "living expenses" without any consideration of circumstances; - They get to have first stab at your income whenever and wherever they want; and - Have been known to overcharge payments, and then determine that the excess was a "gift" and therefore non-recoverable and can't be used as credit. I firmly agree with paying support for your children, and I pay a sizeable chunk myself every week. I also realise that a lot of these powers have been brought in because of deadbeat parents who don't do the right thing (just the same as the reluctance to pay could be partly chalked up to deadbeat parents who use the money for anything but the kid). And I'll admit that I just get the shits when my son's mother turns up and says something stupid like, "He needs [x], isn't it about time you bought some of this stuff?" I put up with most of the shit because she just split up with her husband and might have to move interstate because of financial difficulty. I know it's my child support that's propping her up and keeping her here, so I'm quite happy to pay more than I probably should rather than her and my son move away. If a parent wants to be a shithead, they will. And being a shithead, they'll use any manner of underhanded tactics to make their ex-partner suffer. The easiest way is through the kids. It's also the the lowest and most unfair. Kids aren't bargaining chips. Maybe the only way to deal with it is to give the ex a list of what the kids need on an ongoing basis and have him supply it; anything that couldn't be construed as being usable by you. If he keeps arguing, then you've taken an excuse away from him and shown that no matter what, he's probably not going to pay anyway.
Guys (or women) that bitch about child support payments are losers. They couldn't come up with a better system if they tried, but will complain about the one that works best anyway. Child support is a necessity. Alimony, on the other hand, is a different and much more understandably debatable issue. In basically says this: if your spouse was spoiled rotten during your marriage, you have to pay enough money to KEEP them spoiled while they are single and fucking other people even though they are an adult perfectly capable of supporting themselves. However, like any court-money thing there are two sides to every arguement. I'm stopping there. You guys can play with this can of worms. I always thought guys should pay, or at least offer. There are certain things we (as guys) should still do courtesy-wise: Open the door, don't take the lead on a staircase, offer to take off your own pants, and pay (or at least) offer to pay for the date. And ladies, when it comes to paying for the date, shut up. Seriously. Stop pulling shit out of your purse and insisting to pay for "your half". I makes a lot of guys downright uncomftorable when women try to pay. Don't get me wrong, we appreciate the gesture greatly but (at least I think) every guy should go into a date expecting pay for everything. Some old fashioned methods are best.
I really disagree with this. I mean I make more than most of my the people that I date, and I usually do the asking and the restaurant / activity choosing, and usually pay. But showing up without money or not even making a token effort to attempt to pay or protest my paying is a short, short step away from waving a sign that says 'will suck dick for (nice) food'. It's a little different if we've negotiated before ('Come out for dinner.' 'Oh I'd love to, but I'm a broke ass student.' 'Oh fuck that, I'm buying.') - but if we're both gainfully employed professionals and you've asked me out, you should at least be prepared to pay for your own.
Any guy would and should appreciate the gesture to pay. I just never expected it in my dating years. I guess I read too many Archie comics and thought that going Dutch was an evil, cheapskate move. Call me old fashioned.
I agree with what you're saying, but I think some guys appreciate the short to-and-fro that comes with paying. I think it's been discussed here before. At least that way, although you both really know that the guy is paying in full, she isn't coming across as too downright snobby/rude etc
I make it a rule to never refuse money twice, so if she insists on putting some cash down toward the check then I won't say no (especially if it's like last time where she easily made twice my income). Sometimes though this move has been a precursor to the "let's just be friends" speech, so I not only don't expect it, I don't want it to happen usually. Not that I'm not grateful, I should point out - been on a few dates where women were perfectly willing to not even offer to take care of some of the tip before telling me essentially that she can do better. I kind of wonder what a woman would say if I gave her some money to cover the groceries if she cooked dinner at her place.
Perhaps, those "sometimes" are the result of what she considered a bad date. Her telling you to take a hike isn't the result of who pays for what; this isn't a precursor at all; it's a result of the evening and they're just not that into you. As for paying for dates: I'll pay for the first one and sometimes second; after that, we can negotiate. Paying for dates has no bearing on if she is into me, there are other factors, but I will say that of the women whom I've had healthy, longer relationships with are the ones who offer to go dutch or pay for the second/third date (as opposed to the ones that fizzle out after a short period; the ones who don't offer at all).
If the check comes and New Guy grabs his wallet before I get to mine, I ask if he's sure, and offer to either pay completely, or split. If he says he's got it, then I get next time. New Guy makes substantially more money than I do, but I'm not looking for a free ride at all. I do not expect him to cover my food, and I do not expect him to pay for every activity, particularly if the activity is my idea. I drink way...WAY...more than he does. I'll pay for my drinks. Besides, if it's pretty evenly split, I don't feel like I owe anyone anything. The Guy and I...when we do anything...we just take turns. We never question it and it never came up, and even now, if we go anywhere, it's not argued over. We've always taken turns. Always. I brought the booze last night, so next time, he's gonna have it handled.
This is essentially how I feel. I pay more often than not, because 1) I usually asked her out, 2) I can afford it these days, and 3) it's a somewhat touchy subject and first dates are already awkward enough without broaching it. But I will always look kindly on an attempt to pay and respect them more for it. And if we do go on more than, say, 3 dates and there no offer, I look upon this negatively. It's a generational thing, largely. In my age range, it's increasingly common for women to make as much as men, or at least in a long-term expectation view (especially as they are more than half of bachelor degree recipients). I would view the expectation of the man paying as a somewhat retrograde belief in someone my age. I think that's still sort of what he meant. That the woman, having decided it isn't going anywhere, pays for her half in order to sort of walk away with clean hands and without accusations of golddiggery or "obligations." He's not saying they won't sleep with him because he didn't pay the whole bill.
Haven't we already had several threads covering this? I've never paid for a first date, but I've always offered to split or at least get the tip. Now that the boyfriend and I have been together a while we both pay. I'm a broke-ass student so it's an uneven split. If we go out to a dinner and movie he'll pay for the dinner/drinks. I'll get the movie tickets. I like it that way because I'd feel really guilty of he paid for everything.
Me and the ex would do the same. I think when it comes to relationships rather than dates the "rules" tend to change.
In almost any common relationship I see, if it started out with the traditional guy paying the woman usually starts gradually chipping in as they go from "dating" to "boyfriend-girlfriend" if the relationship is a success. I'm pretty sure a lot of people on here can relate.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.roberttwigger.com/journal/2010/9/16/richard-feynmans-pick-up-technique.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.roberttwigger.com/journal/20 ... nique.html</a> Feynmand, the original PUA. If you haven't read Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman I highly recommend it. I'll usually pay on a first date for the same reason MoreCowbell mentions; things are awkward enough that bill wrangling is something I'd rather avoid. A "I'll get the next time" response from the woman is always appreciated. Eventually I usually found myself splitting checks or trading off who is buying. A woman who just accepts as a matter of right that men should pay her way is, as many have said, not worth the time. A woman who happens to be broke right now, on the other hand, is not the same thing and sometimes the trick is distinguishing the golddigger from the generous-but-poor-at-the-moment.
I always pay for the woman, unless my EBT cad is empty. I'M NOT MADE OF FOOD STAMPS, WOMAN. I'm made of food?
Hurr...prepare this to sound like it's from High School (cause it sure as fuck does from my point) Back Story I dance, specifically Lindyhop (Swing dance to some). One of the girls I dance with regularly, we will call her V for this adventure, has been showing some interest in me (fantastic) and me casually flirting with her. Some time last year/early this year, she out and asked me if I was interested in her, and I replied "Yes, but I can't at the moment because of school" (something along the lines of 80 hours of class and homework a week), which she replied with the fact she was not looking for someone at the time (I balled that up at the time and we won't even go into that part of it). Fast forward to the summer, I am out-of-town on a co-op for school, and we keep in touch via email. 2 Weekends ago, at a group event with some friends, she hung out with me a lot, and it was fairly obvious something had changed over the summer between us (for the good). Bringing us to last Saturday, we are at the weekly dance, and after some good old-fashioned dirty blues dancing, she asked me if I was still interested in her and was looking for a relationship, I replied at that I was still interested in her, and was wanting a relationship. At this point, Ill sum up the conversation, cause it got a little drawn out, and it makes more sense here. -She is interested in me, both physically and mentally (This is new for a chubby as person like me, that was mostly introverted not too long ago) -She...blah blah blah...Its boring and mostly unimportant out side of the fact that she wants me to wait till after Christmas to ask her out because she feels she is way too busy right now. Any ideas of what the fuck is up, because it is beyond me right now. She is a cool girl, and I would love to go out with her, it's just that it seems like she is kind of reluctant to do the same with me (she admitted to having little experience dating, and the dates she has been on have turned out less than stellar) Help?