"The shot heard round the world for American clean energy."

See, here's the big question; at what cost are we willing to make the earth greener? It won't be cheap, I can guarantee that. Hell, the Thorium reactors, which are touted as the latest and greatest still need billions of dollars of research and will like cost upwards of 250-500 million a pop. What point is it economically feasible to install a fuck tonne of the latest technologically advanced energy producing nuclear plants and lets face it, pound for pound, nuclear wins of the efficiency of creating energy; as opposed to running around and throw a fuck tonne of windmills and solar generators.

As for clean; nothing is perfect. Wind generators cause issues, as do tidal generators, as does nuclear and so does fuel burning plants.

 

I never said that saving electricity would solve all of our problems. Automatic lights was just a random example I pulled out of my ass to make the point that in addition to utilizing clearner energy we should also be cutting down on the energy we consume.

 

I decided to cut back on the electricity I use at home. I started using my programmable thermostat, lowered the temperature by an average 3 degrees. I lowered the hot water tank by about 15 degrees and I took the habit of turning off/unplugging any appliance, light or system when not in use. I've cut down my power bill by about 40% in a year without noticing much.

Also, when I'm in the mood, I drive 10% slower, which saves me 10% in gas.

I did not do this for global warming or any other cause. I simply did it because I'm a cheap bastard and hate seeing my money going down the drain.

What I don't understand is that I had a 91 diesel jetta that made 55 miles per gallon. That was 20 years ago, and the 2010 cars have similar gas mileage. Not sure if I should blame the car companies for being stupid or blame consumers for not demanding more efficient car instead of all the SUVs they prefer.

 

Congratulations, you now consume more energy than only 90% of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I think that doing what you can to use less energy is awesome. It's just that we demand such a high standard of living, and that causes us to consume a shit ton of energy. All those fancy gadgets we love so much are provided to us at a price we can afford (partly) because we have access to a lot of cheap dirty energy. I had a discussion with a friend the other day who was ranting about conspiracy theories and how the big oil companies are purposely blocking the advancement of alternative energies. Fuck that. If there was money to be made in those sectors, you better believe that big oil would be the first to jump on the opportunity. After all, they want to make as much money as possible. If wind/solar/etc. provided an avenue for them to make money, I'm pretty sure they would invest in it. It's not like someone at an oil company is saying "Hey, we could invest a billion dollars in different energy sources and make 5 billion dollars in profits, but we're not going to do that because we won't be able to destroy the planet that way. Let's go kill a bald eagle and club baby seals for fun fellas!"

I don't like the idea of the government trying to artificially steer the markets toward these alternative energies through taxes or price controls or carbon credits or whatever scheme is the flavor of the week. Once Government gets involved, no matter how noble their intentions, unexpected consequences seem to create more harm than good. I do like the idea of alternative energies becoming more prominent in America. I just don't see that happening without the price of oil going through the roof for a long period of time. Once that happens it'll create a demand for different (cheaper) energy sources. It'll also create an incentive for companies and individuals to invest in different energy sources. There will be a lot of money to be made by anyone who develops cheaper energy sources. The only reason we aren't seeing more progress in this area is because the price of oil/gas is still relatively low. This seems like such a basic economic principle. Am I missing something here?

Oh, and build nuclear power plants. Like yesterday. That seems to currently be the best alternative to coal and oil.

 

I don't buy into the whole climate change bullshit either, but what I do buy into is money. There's a guy somewhere around here that has enough solar panels on his roof, that Ontario Hydro pays HIM $45 a month for what he contributes to the grid beyond what he's consuming. I'll try to find the link tomorrow.

 

Environmentalism is noble, but doomed.

I do what I can, but not nearly enough.

There's a reason it's called the "tragedy of the commons" and not the "minor annoyance of the commons."

 

Businesses are lazy and risk adverse.

Why roll the dice and budget millions on R&D for one of several next gen energy technologies? Instead, spend a lot less on supporting the current oil infrastructure with a proven, successful business model. Even if some actions are less than moral.

So you're right, companies aren't looking for ways to ruin the environment. But they certainly aren't opposed to it if it fits their agenda.

 

Yeah, just like Westinghouse were the ones to really invest in transistors and start using them instead of vacuum tubes. It's not like Westinghouse decided they couldn't make a good enough profit off the technology and ignored it or anything.

If it'll cost $10 billion to make $15 billion, and it'll take years to develop it, people who are spending $1 billion to make $15 billion right now are probably not going to be as interested.

 

I really don't see the oil companies becoming part of the next generation of energy. Businesses aren't quick to jump on the technology bandwagon- record companies or Blockbuster for instance.

Once the economy rebounds, we'll see more start-ups. But the amount of sunken costs needed for just the infrastructure is going to be in the billions, not something a start-up is going to have funds for. I think this is why alternative energy hasn't taken off yet.

 

It always takes years and years and billions to change infrastructure. We've had interstate highways for 60 years now, but someone had to build them and they were the largest public works project in the history of mankind. Now our entire economy absolutely depends on them for its survival. Unfortunately the government doesn't have a trillion dollars to spend right now (unless it's for the banks).

I always am surprised by the attitudes of people around me when it comes to waste reduction. Last weekend I was with my family and my aunt was flabbergasted that I refilled a plastic water bottle with tap water instead of grabbing a new one. She was genuinely concerned and even told me to open a new one so I could drink much more expensive tap water. I used the same bottle all weekend while she went through 5 or 6. Most people don't give one iota of thought to the amount of trash they send to the landfill.

Americans as a whole are probably the most wasteful people on earth.

 

Not quite. That $45 a month is NOT taking into account the billions of dollars the Governments pumped into Solar Panels, the billions of dollars the Government is not gaining / losing through tax credits, and the millions in outright grants given out to use Solar Panels.

$45 a month seems amazing until you remove all of the money that was forcefully taken from someone else to make it possible.

 

Even if climate change does happen and the planet's weather becomes unstable and sea levels rise , the status quo will still largely be maintained.
70%-80% of the worlds population will suffer and/or be proportionally reduced in numbers and lucky 20-30% will have the technology , infrastructure and money to adapt and propsper.

Wind farming has a massive way to go before it can even come close to the power generated by nuclear energy , let alone coal fired energy.

 

Before I get into the topic I want to get one thing out of the way.

I fall into the camp of people who say we do not give a rat's ass about the Earth: We care about our survival. If a magical mystical alien race came along and said they can give us the technology to live forever as a race in colonies that have no limit on resources but it would magically involve the obliteration of Earth we would care less about Earth. I also believe nothing we do will ever have a lasting effect on the Earth in the long run. That is just us being smug assholes about how powerful and special we like to think we are when really we a tiny, useless, nothing blip in the history of both Earth and (especially) the Universe as a whole.

The only thing that might make me change my mind on that would be if we put every rocket and nuclear device on the planet in one location to try and change its orbit. Hell I don't even know if that is possible so it's a dumb point. I also believe that humans would start killing each other off in a massive WW III before we ever got even close to the point where we used up all of Earth's resources that we would destroy it.

On to Energy:

Personally the only problem I will ever have with energy is if we as a society become dependent on only one source of energy. I think it is more than healthy and a good idea to always have a back up plan for energy. I see no reason we cannot have solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, hydro, coal, oil, etc. all as resources we use wherever they are capable of being used.

Constant examples in economics show how it is usually a terrible idea to depend on only one resource in almost any matter. Of course there are some exceptions to this rule because they just wind up being so useful but if the government wants to take my tax money and pump it into energy research I could care less. It may not be the most efficient way of doing things but I do not trust any person or group to manage a single resource. Even if it is nuclear energy we produce in the US. That is not because I think people are inherently evil and trying to screw me it is more because mistakes happen and I do not want to be left shit out of luck if something bad happens.

edit: grammar is less crappy now

 

I absolutely love that this is taking place off the coast of Cape Cod. My family had a place down there when I was younger (which my parents sold because they hated it) and I can't remember a smaller square mile area packed tighter with self entitled douches. We go to Maine now. The majority of the "money" on the Cape is handed down and the 3rd and 4th generation land holders down there are mostly leeches on those fortunes.

The best part of the article was the fear of disturbing "underwater Indian burial grounds"... for reals? This is an actual concern?

I can't wait for these to go in. I plan on sailing down to check them out first hand. For all the fucking whiners saying this will ruin the view, the turbine field will look like a 1/4 bump on the horizon from shore. Oh NO!

Personally I recycle, use CFLs, purchase energy star appliances, and I sail rather than powerboat (mostly) which is the most efficient use of the wind. I live in a farming community where personal windmills aren't allowed... yet. I'd love to put up two in the field behind my house and get off the grid.

 

I am an engineer trying to get into the power industry and personally, I think that nuclear is the way to go. Recently, in France and several other European countries, they have discovered a way to reuse somewhere around 97% of waste from nuclear reactors. It is almost completely clean at this point. Facilities like this with huge start up costs and "limitless" energy are just a fad. They will fade when everyone realizes how stupid they are being about the whole ordeal.

 

You all might be interested to see this: A Cold fusion reaction.