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"The shot heard round the world for American clean energy."

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Samr, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. Samr

    Samr
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    U.S. approves first offshore wind farm

    Focus: What do you think about this? Is it too much of an environmental concern, or is this a step in the right direction?

    Alt. Focus: Do you do anything "green?" Disregard it? Think it's a fad?
     
  2. Bosco

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    I'm not an enviro-nazi or tree hugger, but IMO anything we can do to take care of the environment is a good thing and should be considered, especially clean energy.

    My own efforts are limited to the basics, mainly recycling, using CFLs and trying to conserve energy. When I finally buy a house I'll probably take it a step further and throw some solar panels on the roof and use LED lighting throughout the house.
     
  3. Blue Dog

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    I once farted in a jar with the intent of saving it to throw in my little brother's face, but ended up forgetting about it and leaving it a on shelf in my room for about a year, thus saving the world from excess methane exposure.

    Does that count?

    Focus:

    I don't buy into the "Go Green" propaganda. That's all I'll say on that subject.
     
  4. Evil Scotsman

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    The only solution to any climate change problem is nuclear power. Yes, green technologies like wind farms and solar power are nice but will never be able to meet demand for energy. The only way to meet that demand without enormous carbon output is nuclear technology, which has advanced massively in recent decades and is very safe - 77% of France's electricity is nuclear generated and accidents like Chernobyl were the result of an already obsolete (and significantly flawed) Soviet design. We'll still have the problem of waste fuel but that's far easier to manage than climate change.

    And on the so-called "green propaganda" I think it's best to look at it in terms of Pascal's wager - the evidence may be ambiguous but it's better to assume that climate change is man-made and take steps to remedy it than choose to believe it is not, do nothing and then find ourselves scrambling to deal with the consequence of significant change to our planet's climate.
     
  5. Benzilla

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    [​IMG]

    Either way, I'm all for it.
     
  6. Frebis

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    I only need the earth to last until the day I die. After that I could give a shit less what happens to this plannet. Because of this belief I do not purposely do anything "green".

    Just to offset some of you fucks, I may go down to the local coal fired power plant and give them a donation for doing such an awesome job.
     
  7. Samr

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    This. While I think I may be smart, my field of expertise is nowhere near related to any type of science, whatsoever. Accordingly, I can look at the evidence I am aware of and say I "think" this or that is happening, but no way will my opinion hold up in an argument. So it's just better to assume all this is happening, and react accordingly.

    Unfortunately, the house we live in is about 90 years old, so it'd be insanely expensive to retro-fit it with a bunch of "green" stuff, beyond just more insulation, which we did. I'd love to add in solar panels, led lighting, etc., and that may very well happen if we ever add on for kids.

    As far as the whole "green companies" thing goes, I think a lot of it is bullshit. It's just another way to market, play on the interests of your customers. The companies that actually do it to help the environment, and will act environmentally-friendly at their expense with little or no gain, well more power to them. But from what I've seen, those are few and far between.
     
  8. kuhjäger

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    Here is a really good article written about why wind power is bull-shit, and we shouldn't be wasting our time with it when there are actual efficient technologies out there that can be continually refined:

    20% wind power by 2030?

     
  9. kuhjäger

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    We could always wrap hid body in copper wire, and then put a couple of magnets around his grave and harness the power of his spins.
     
  10. Crown Royal

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    I'm sure that there ARE lecherous businesses out there profiteering on the Green boom, but I am all for going green. This is the kind of thing where it can't hurt to try, and the areas that is has success in could create new jobs and money. Car companies should be taking better measures (looking into electric again) and the water shortage is a MUCH more serious issue than people know right now. I do my small duties at home: rain barrels, compost, recycling, natural fertilizer, etc.

    I don't see this as a fad. Pogs are a fad. Legwarmers are a fad. This may be important. I remember once hearing years ago that if we had no Ozone layer the Sun would fry us like ants under a magnifying glass. That kind of shit should be taken into consideration.

    Nuclear energy is light years ahead of it's Miami Vice-era fiascos and is safe and plentiful.
     
  11. Suit Jacket

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    My only issue with nuclear energy is that the french do it.

    I don't trust the french to do anything right.
     
  12. Primer

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    I would love to see the death count on workers in the Coal industry as opposed to the nuclear industry and the safety standards/conditions of workers/public. I'm willing to bet that in the last 15-20 years Coal wins by a fucking landslide.

    Focus: I try and be as "green" as I can and I for one like that corporate everything has gotten it's grip into the green movement. There's only one way that public opinion gets swayed and only one way things get done around this (these) countries and that's if someone can make a buck at it. Way I figure, we cannot be any worse off for being nice to our planet.
     
  13. toddus

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    Won't someone please think of the Indian burial grounds!
     
  14. falconjets

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    Whether or not you believe in all of it should make no difference. The energy sources we use will run out one day, and we should prepare for that day now instead of later. If you were running a business and walked in one day and said at some point down the road we will lose the source of 95% of our income and we have no idea what we will do to replace it, but we're just going to ignore that fact and act like there's no problem, you would be looked at as the dumbest person ever. But, when leaders of our country see that our main source of energy, one that has dragged us into many conflicts as well as causes numerous problems because we have to import it, is going to run out at some point, and we really don't know when, lots of people support them and tell those green wearing pussies to shut up.
    The thing about "going green" is that it can save you insane amounts of money. Looked at your power bill lately? Want to lower it? Unplug appliances when you're not using them instead of just turning them off, or turn lights off when you're not in the room. Get light bulbs that use less energy, more efficient air conditioning, clean the filter on your air vents. That is "going green", that is also ridiculously easy and can save you a shitload of money. I tend to find people who don't do these things to be assholes when they don't do them just because they think it's for those stupid save the environment hippies. Drive the damn Prius, your dick will still be two inches with your Hummer or without it.

    edit: I'm only referring to the people who actually fit the category in the last sentence, people who don't do it because they're lazy I'm not making any judgments on because I have that same habit some time. It just is a really easy fix.
     
  15. Roxanne

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    I believe we've already fucked the planet so hard that there is no recourse to fix it, and it's only a matter of time before we uncover evidence that we are irreversibly screwed.
     
  16. AbsentMindedProf

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    Nature is amazingly resilent. I think it will keep on trucking unless we end up just nuking everything out of existence.

    There are a lot of "green" iniatives that are bullshit, but overall I'm a big fan of the movement. If you keep up with the scientific advancements that are happening with solar power, and biofuels it's actually pretty promising. I would estimate in 20-30 years that solar starts to become a very attractive option economically. You'll still need other sources, which is where nuclear power should come in.
     
  17. Misanthropic

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    There is way more to be said on this than can possibly be crammed into a bunch of ill-informed message board posts, but since we're on the subject:

    That article linked in the initial post and many of the replies here reflect a typical all or nothing attitude. Why does ONE source of power have to be THE source of power? Doesn't it make far more sense to diversify, and thus reduce the limitations imposed by relying on a single energy source?

    All of you can tout your current favorite source of power, from burning dead cats to putting solar panels in space, but every source of energy generation has its limitations. Unfortunately most folks, particularly to the left of the political spectrum, use these limitations as NIMBY excuses. Everyone wants to flick on the light switch but no one wants to bear the costs.

    Solar - expensive and requires hazardous materials to produce panels and cells. Think there is no environmental impact to locating these in the desert? There a bunch of mescaline-addled hippies and 3-foot thick permit applications that would disagree

    Wind - limited by the presence of sufficient, um, wind. Cuisinarts bats and birds. Flicker and low pitched tones from them can drive folks nuts.

    Hydropower - Think of the salmon!

    Nuclear Fission - Insanely expensive to build or decommission. In fact, tax dollars heavily subsidize construction of these plants. Slight problem of incredibly deadly waste by-products with no means of disposal.

    Fossil fuel - Produces loads of pollutants, and the majority of the fuels either come from unstable parts of the globe or from exploding mines. Oh and this:

    is ridiculous. Power plants do not run at 100% no matter how you slice it. Even at peak loading there is often a pump, or turbine or boiler that is down for maintenance. Running any of these units at their rated capacity typically isn't done - there is always left some wiggle room for equipment tolerance so that nothing gets burned out. And I'm assuming no one isn their right mind would suggest that any combustion based source of energy actually performs at 100% efficiency (i.e., 100% of the energy potential of the fuel is converted to usable energy) because that is just short of impossible. Wind turbines are oversold, and almost always underproduce compared to their potential. But that is like saying your bike can go as fast as 10 mph, but you shouldn't bother using it because you can't pedal that fast. Te realistic production of each turbine is accounted fro when determining a wind farm configuration, and any honest supplier of small widn turbines for use by an individual will tell what actaul power production to expect.

    Nuclear fusion - Not in our lifetimes


    There is no one answer.
     
  18. RCGT

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    These two things are not mutually exclusive. As George Carlin once said, "The planet is fine. The people are fucked!"



    FOCUS: I live by one rule: if it's biodegradable, I throw it on the ground. Toothpicks, wooden spoons, all that shit. Straight into the bushes. I actually get shit about this. Blows my mind.

    If you're really all about human survival and leaving a better world to your children, you better start getting up on your terraforming advocacy. Let's get off this rock.
     
    #18 RCGT, Apr 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  19. Primer

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    Definitely. There is no system on the planet that relies on a single source, from cars to food, there is always a back-up; not having one is foolish; even more foolish is not accepting new (or old in the case of nuclear) technologies as a viable energy source. Wired introduced an interesting article on Nuclear energy that everyone should read and is even touting Thorium as the newest, the most environmentally friendly and energy producing efficient source coming.

    No question about it, there are downfalls to each and every single large scale power system out there but we also know that Coal isn't the future; it's dirty and dangerous.

    Doesn't that sound nice? Little waste produce (in relation to Uranium I guess), break-down cycle that is a fraction of Uranium and it's plentiful. Holy Jesus tit, that sounds awesome! Mind you, problem is expense; guess there is always a downfall.

    My point of this that we shouldn't just look at wind turbines and solar panels to collect our future energy. There will always be issues with every source that mankind decides on, there will always be issues and dangers but what we need to focus on is something that is sustainable and has the lowest impact on [everything] and will also provide energy for the massive population that will take over the planet in the next fifty to a hundred years.
     
  20. Logitech

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    Actually it's due to the NPT that we have nuclear waste. If we were allowed to re-enrich the waste, we'd have no shortage of nuclear fuel for the future.