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The Inflation/Recession Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTE, May 6, 2022.

  1. malisbad

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    One or two "bad choices" can lead to a crushing spiral that ends with nothing but disaster. "Most of those people" doesn't mean there isn't a large, significant number of people who are suffering. Also, the "rough patch" could lead you down the road to having to blow the manager of the local convenience store otherwise you lose your job and the only thing keeping your family ticking along. Sometimes it is only a single "choice" that does it as well.

    "A widespread lack of ambition" is just a rephrasing of the "bootstraps" argument. It just another way of saying it's their fault they are poor. The assumption that they will just squander resources is also part of the problem. You want to talk about short cuts? Look at those who are born ridiculously wealth, who then get to bend the rules to keep those advantages and worse yet, continue to pile them on.

    Those governments are contracting out the work because the "public" demands it. The free market! Lower taxes! Less government spending! Fat contracts for private enterprise! Aside which, what about people who are older? They've got the experience, they're got certifications (or not), but are completely priced out. They can't afford to live where the job densities are there. No one should have to commute 2 - 4 hours a day just to live in an affordable apartment or a private space.

    Everything said here is just "you're not working hard enough, and that's why you deserve to suffer".
     
  2. NatCH

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    What are the minimum necessities that should be considered basic human rights?
     
  3. downndirty

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    https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

    Article 25 is a good start:

    1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
    2. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
     
  4. Revengeofthenerds

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    I would frame it as "necessities" more so than rights, and necessities that the government should ensure are met.

    shelter, clean water and food (not like "living large and prepping" but like "not hungry"), clothing, medical care for physical/dental/mental, maternity and paternity leave and/or assistance, some form of transportation either public or private, internet access, and since I'm in the field and see how important it is for both children and families I would also argue: childcare
     
  5. NatCH

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    Do you think the federal government will ever successfully provide these necessities?
    Do you think that, if these necessities were provided, the (for lack of a better term) quality of the product would be considered satisfactory?


    Don’t take this as a “we shouldn’t even try” argument, I’m just throwing out discussion questions.
     
  6. Revengeofthenerds

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    no, I don’t think the government will ever provide these, because that would require raising taxes on the ultra rich, who line their pockets through bribes… I mean, “lobbyists”

    yes I do believe that if these things were provided it would substantially raise the quality of life across the board. Better production at work too, so those companies wouldn’t complain. But again, taxes. They only care about the bottom line and can’t see that far out
     
  7. downndirty

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    The federal government does not, and should not provide these necessities. Trust me, when FEMA does it, it's not a good time.

    It's more that the federal government should balance some of the weaknesses of our current system that disadvantages some folks or favors others when it comes to accessing these necessities, and when certain actors skew that balance unfavorably, the feds act to restore that balance. For example, when investment firms buy up housing stock and then jack the price up, the feds allay taxes so that's not as favorable an investment, or when price gouging or labor monopsony exists, the feds have programs to reduce the social harm.

    My personal belief is we HAVE the laws, policies and programs to address this stuff, it's just been gutted, ignored, under-resourced or politically thwarted to disfunction. Between HUD, the states and locals, we have plenty of laws and programs to address the housing crisis, but because of various political pressures, funding shortages and NIMBYism, it simply hasn't been done.
     
  8. Juice

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    We should be doing that regardless, we just don’t. Money is aimlessly thrown at the problem in hopes that it gets whatever party is sponsoring it through the next election cycle. That strategy clearly hadn’t worked.
     
  9. downndirty

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    Money and empires of bureacrats that don't do SHIT.

    I also think part of the problem is the belief that the free market solves everything for everyone. Things like prisons, education, healthcare have difficulty aligning incentives to not be exploitative.

    Circling back to the original point of "reforms are desperately needed", and because these industries have over the past 20 years become enormous, encompassing huge swaths of local economies, not to mention the national economy, they are now entrenched, and difficult to reform. Hell, looking at some of the more controversial laws on public ed, things are trending in the opposite direciton, where they want more business influence in public education, not less.
     
  10. SouthernIdiot

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    You can spend every dime we bring in on education and it won't make a damn bit of difference if the group you are trying to teach isn't interested in learning. Everybody says they value education, but when you look into it they don't.

    The problem is the culture the kids and their parents raised in. How are you going to change that without said groups screaming about governmental intrusion in their lives? And it's multi-generational so it's going to be tough to do regardless.
     
  11. GTE

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    Probably be labeled a NIMBY by some people but just found out that they're going to place a homeless encampment next to my place of business. Not down the block or across the street but right fucking next door. Petty crime has already skyrocketed in the last few years coinciding with the rise of homeless in the area. I can only imagine what's going to happen now. Even if crime stays the same, junkies aren't really known for keeping a clean environment.
    Ironically, this is the same county that refuses to grant me a mechanics license because it's no longer zoned for that due to them trying to "beautify" the area. So, mechanic shop bad. Homeless camp good.
     
  12. Nettdata

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    A friend of mine has a shop here in London, and for the longest time the building next door was a Hell's Angels clubhouse. He said they were the nicest and best neighbours ever.

    ZERO crime in the area, and they always asked and paid handsomely for the use of his lot as occasional overflow parking.

    It eventually got shut down and he had to really beef up his security as it all went so shit.
     
  13. Aetius

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    A city "placing" a homeless encampment is super rare. Even in Los Angeles it's considered a radical approach, and there's only one that I'm aware of (tucked away by the highway, near a car rental place). Usually a city just becomes resigned to an encampment that has already popped up.
     
  14. GTE

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    Not here.

    https://www.abc10.com/article/news/...park/103-324e5781-f2e2-4f19-9b4c-c77bbc24ace8

    That is Miller Park. Use to be a great area for families to enjoy a bbq next to the river.
     
  15. Aetius

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    It sounds like Sacramento had one, is closing it, and is opening this one instead, so one site in a city is something I'd still consider rare. Sucks to be near the rarity though.

    My guess is this will bite them. Residents are loathe to give up public park space. It's one thing to have a site near a highway away from homes; it's another to place it in a frequently used park. Here in LA the encampment at Echo Park was the straw that broke a lot of backs, and led to an aggressive cleanup and removal of the encampment.
     
  16. GTE

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    Not just the one site. There are several around the city and certain areas they told them that they could park RV's on the street so now there's dozens of Breaking Bad looking RV's down a main thoroughfare. In South Sac they are looking at turning a lot (parking lot?) into a tiny home city. But yes, like you said in your PM, there is a difference between a shelter and an encampment. We have lots of encampments all over town.


    I might've got my panties in a bunch a little early. Some other business owners called the county and the county said the newspaper has the wrong address which would make sense. I understand they need to go somewhere but giving them a ~$1,000,000 lot of prime real estate doesn't make sense.
     
  17. xrayvision

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    I hear the capture, spay/neuter and release programs are very effective.
     
  18. Nettdata

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    Just paid $2.49 a litre to fill up with diesel.

    Weeee
     
  19. wexton

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    Dam, must be a major city with a gvr like tax.
     
  20. Revengeofthenerds

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    goes cross country, liquidates stock to make it back