Gents - and by that I mean Nettdata, Guy Fawkes and others with real driving experience. I am considering trading my beloved Miata in for something quicker. This car is a blast to drive but after being told by a track day instructor that it is the car and not my driving that is holding back my progress, I am considering moving on. Of course, there are better uses of my money, like a hefty down payment on a nice condo, but say I had about 20k to spend. What comes to mind for a dual purpose car. So far I am leaning towards a C5 Corvette Z06, but it would probably be even less practical than my Miata, which is hard to fathom. And it wouldn't cost $25 to fill up either.
E36 M3's can be had with decent mileage and mods for little money, at least here in the states. BTW, welcome back. How's the journalism world?
It's great, thanks for asking. I just have very little time for socializing in real life, let alone posting online. Since I started full-time in April, I've driven about 25 cars and traveled to 11 different locales. Already gearing up for Detroit Auto Show this coming weekend/week, then one week here, then off to San Diego for the Camaro Vert/Cruze Eco launch, shortly after that Chicago Auto Show, Toronto Auto Show, Porsche Winter Driving School in Quebec, then a week off, then Geneva, the NYC Auto Shows...should take me through April, and I'll likely have a few more launches to go to. Oh, and I'm doing an Ice Racing Series this winter after getting my first competition license. EDIT: From my personal journal, a one line summary of everything I drove in 2010. 1991 Porsche 911 Carrera 2 - They don't make 'em like they used to. Lexus IS350C - At it's best when driving home from the club at 2 AM with the roof down and rap music blaring from the speakers. Otherwise it's useless. Cadillac CTS-V - America, fuck yeah! Took this one out on the back roads of Napa early in the morning, triple digit speeds all the way, and back in time for breakfast. What I really needed was a cigarette. Cadillac CTS Coupe - Buy German instead. Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG - If Hitler invaded Russia with one of these, the war might have turned out different. Infiniti M37 - It's got bits of silver in the wood trim. Nissan Juke - So much fun for less than $20,000, looks like it's missing a chromosome. BMW 550i - The navigation system got me lost, and BMW has lost the plot with this thing. MINI E electric car - A for effort on the electric MINI. MINI Cooper S - Feels like a faster Miata. MINI Clubman S - So much fun that I drove the same mountain roads 3 times during a cross-country drive through America, and still managed to arrive ahead of everyone else. MINI Countryman S - Still fun with four doors Shelby GT500 - Being an extrovert jackass was awesome for a week. Fuel bills made me go broke. Might be the last belligerent muscle car ever. Tesla Roadster - Me: "Dude, I don't want to go too fast, I can't afford another speeding ticket." Peter: "Don't worry, the cops won't hear you coming." Acura TL - The only thing with a nose bigger than my own. Hyundai Sonata Hybrid - It's good. For a hybrid. Hyundai Sonata Turbo - Now that's more like it. Hyundai Elantra - Hard to go wrong for $15,000 Aston Martin V8 Vantage - The gorgeous girl who sucks in bed? That's the Aston. Acura CSX Type S - For the guy who still likes loud Civics but wears a button-up to work. Chevrolet Cruze - A small car that's not embarassing. Volvo S60 - Not just for whipped husbands anymore. Rossion Q1 - $1,000,000 performance, $5 interior. Probably less.
Well, you could always step up to a Porsche Boxster. They're getting pretty cheap these days, are nicely balanced, and are pretty peppy. It'll still be a momentum car vs a point-and-shoot high HP car, but it'll do more for developing your driving abilities than a Corvette will. And will be less work and less expensive to keep on the track. The only thing you really need is a solid roll bar bolt-in, as the Porsche auto-pop-up rollover protection isn't usually accepted at the track. Other than that, get a harness and a race bucket you can bolt in when you need it, and you're all set. That'll come in well under your budget, and leave some left over. Corvette would be a fun track car, but I think that unless you're talking something from the last 2-3 years, you'll be running into engine life and brake issues. Or some rather serious aftermarket upgrades. I've seen a bunch of Vettes just chew through brakes, overheat, go into limp mode, etc., when pushed anywhere near the limit for any length of time. The Vettes we race against are blowing up engines every 2-3 weekends. A street Vette tends to lose brakes unless you have aftermarket upgrades. $0.02
I am not looking forward to the maintenance/IMS/expensive everything issues that accompany an early Boxster, as much as I adore them. A friend of mine has a 986 50th AE Boxster S and has had an absolutely miserable ownership experience. If I'm going to buy a Porsche and grab my ankles, I'd want an air-cooled something. On the other hand I haven't heard a lot about Vettes shitting the bed when used for mild track work.
Two club members have had C6 Z06 sump failures. Both got new engines compliments of GM. One was on the way home from a track day, the other was at a track day (but don't tell GM). I haven't heard of any major issues with C5 cars at all. Seem very stable. Have you considered a used Viper?
Well, true the parts might be a bit expensive on a Boxster, but they have some good longevity to them. I know a few Boxster owners, and they haven't had any real ownership issues. Sorry to hear about your friend. As tot the Vettes, it totally depends on what track, and how it's being driven. I've seen 3 Vettes pushed hard and fry brakes. One was at Thunder Hill (admittedly, it was hot), but it was only 1 of 2 cars that died in a field of about 50 (Other one was a brand new 430). Only Vette in the field. Basically, melted the brakes in half a day, and the ABS totally shit the bed. Even after doing pad/fluid changes, it was still fucked. I've seen the same thing happen with 2 other Vettes at my local track. That being said, my local track is the hardest on brakes I've ever seen. Again, newer Vettes have this sorted out, but I'm not sure they're in your price range. Personally, any car I take to the track, I would not want to have ABS in it. Unless it's a proper, race-specific ABS (Bosch's sells for $35k or so), then it'll cause problems. Regardless, get a car without the driver aids, or the ability to COMPLETELY shut them off. And if you think a Boxster is a money pit, don't even think about taking an old-school air/oil cooled Porsche to the track. Ask me how I know.
Welcome back. Interesting car list and summary as well. Had me laughing. So we've got $20ish grand and the need for speed on the track that can also be used as a daily grinder. A couple questions. 1. Can I assume you want to do little more than switch wheel/tire combos on "race day" 2. Drivetrain characteristics RWD, FWD, AWD we're limited to? 3. Cost split you're open to under the "$20k" guidelines ($15k for vehicle, $5k for upgrades or ?) Be back shortly.
Personally, I'd never track a Viper, unless it was the Speed GT version. Brakes, insane engine maintenance, crazy handling characteristics. Here's a video of me at a track day 4+ years ago, with a new Viper (at the time). <a class="postlink" href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2333323555195952027#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 195952027#</a> It totalled in front of me, and the driver was extricated and sent to hospital.
Glad you enjoyed it man. 1: Roger that. It will primarily be a daily driver. I have my ice racer and my 4-stroke TAG kart to get my wheel-to-wheel kicks. Maybe when I can afford some baller race program I'll step up, for now it's just open lapping days, likely on street tires. 2) Don't care what it is, as long as it work. 3) Turn key is best. I'm not huge on modifying vehicles really. I'll consider things like better shocks, brake components, tires, but absolutely no turbo setups and the like. This shit needs to start up the first time, every time. In all likelihood I will put money down on a condo. I don't think there's anything lamer than buying a 911 or other hot car and living in a total rathole. Or back at home. I paid cash for the Miata, and that's hard to beat.
Never finance a toy. Just the precipice of a slippery slope. ND, wasn't aware of Vipers having huge maintenance costs. I've seen a few wrecked by drivers who have no idea how to properly handle that kind of power. I sure as hell didn't the first time I drove a Diablo, was a hairy experience, luckily had some great coaching in the car with me. SVP, I still think the M3 could be a great option - makes a fine daily driver except the worst winter conditions.
I'm also personally considering an E36 to pick up this spring to replace my deceased Genesis Coupe. Haven't done much research but seems to be a solid platform with no more expensive/drastic maintenance issues as say a Nissan 300ZXTT
Just saw this. Be careful with the Allroads. Their stock air ride suspension is known to fail over time, and it is not cheap to replace. There is an aftermarket coil setup by Arnott you can replace the OEM setup with, but you lose the ability to adjust height on the fly. Arnott also makes replacement bags and compressors if you want to go that route but I do not know a whole lot about their long-term reliability. You have a couple different engine choices, either the 4.2l V8 or the 2.7l twin turbo V6. The V8 is more "reliable" but gets worse gas mileage. The 2.7TT has a tendency to eat turbos (replace in pairs), O2 sensors, EGT sensors, valve cover gaskets, cam seals, t-stats, one of the most intricate plastic/rubber cooling/vacuum setups, and a timing belt that has to be replaced every 75K miles or it can (and does) snap. And Audi, in their infinite wisdom, still loves to make interference engines. So if the belt DOES snap, you can expect to pull the heads and re-do all the valves at bare minimum. Not fun. The V8 on the Allroad is chain-driven I believe, so at least you are safe(r) in that regard. Still, if something does happen to the chain, have fun working with this (not from an Allroad, but you get the picture): There are a couple of Allroad owners in our local Audi club and they LOVE their cars. But just be warned: they are in a different league compared to Explorers when it comes to maintenance. And depending on where you plan on living in WY, clearance may be your biggest concern. When I lived in CO, there were areas that even Avants and Subaru Outbacks had no chance of getting through. *(disclaimer: I owned an Explorer when I lived out west and currently own a B5 S4 as one of my cars)
Sorry to pollute this thread. Feel free to delete if not needed. Maintenance on E36 M3s isn't actually that bad. Stuff like the cooling system components tend to go bad over time, the early (think 95ish?) models had some issues with subframes cracking and occasionally the VANOS system needs to be rebuilt on some cars, but compared to other euro cars in that age range it isn't really that bad. For the price it really is a bargain, especially considering you are getting a M-car. Go price out an E30 and E46 M3, then go find an E36 in your area. Plus from a practically standpoint you can pick up a sedan if you plan on carrying people/kids/whatever around. I don't know a whole lot about the Boxsters, but I would have to assume that you are still paying the infamous Porsche "tax" on parts when things go south.
I have 2 1991 E36 325's (one as a daily driver and one as a parts car). The DD was about $4k all in (including all new front suspension, brakes, headlight harnesses that I replaced). The other is a parts car with pristine powertrain for $400. Can't beat the ROI, for sure. Not sure how an M3 compares, but I've heard some horror stories about thrashed older M3's. I tend to believe the hairdressers driving the Boxsters aren't as hard on them. And yeah, pieces parts for a Boxster are a bit higher cost, but I also find they tend to last longer. The only really shitty thing about Boxsters are the engines that blew up due to a bad seal. But for $10k you can pick up a Boxster for, I'd be tempted. The other option is a Subi. Fun as hell at the track.
Aaaaand, fuck me running. I really have two 1990 E32's, not E36's. My bad. For shits and giggles, here's a friend of mine being coached by me, in my daily driver, at a Porsche track day. In-car is from a friend who was behind us for a bit in his GT3. And regardless of what the comments are, that is the preferred line for a car with only 180 HP and an Oompa Loompa suspension.
That is the tricky part. There are some clapped out M3s around here that have been beat into oblivion. There are also pristine examples. If you are willing to travel to pick one up there are usually nice examples floating around on bimmerforums.com, but yeah...if you are just randomly going to check out cars you see on Craigslist, it can be a crap shoot. Do Boxsters suffer from IMS failures too? Jesus, I thought it was just 911s that were affected by those. That is a definite concern. Subis are a blast. Well-sorted bugeye WRXs are definitely going for under $10K USD around here, and if you looked you could probably find a nice 04/05 for the same range. Full exhaust (up pipe & turboback) and a tune and you're in the low-to-mid 200whp mark, which is enough to have some fun with. My buddy's '04 WRX has ~125K miles on it and he has probably only spent $250 on maintenance parts out of warranty besides shocks, brakes and tires. I actually thought about buying one myself but I just don't fit comfortably in them for DD duties since I am 6'3.
It's actually the rear main seal. I've seen 2 Boxster engines have RMS failures. One at the track, and one that "wasn't sounding right". In both cases, it was just out of warranty (4-5 months or so), and there was just enough damage that they had to buy a new engine. I also had a friend crater his engine in his 911 Carrera 4S, 6 months out of warranty, on the track, because of the IMS going. I was amazed that a new Porsche crate engine was only about $12k for it. But if you're going for a Boxster in the $12k-18k range, odds are it's had that taken care of already, one way or another.
M3's are nice. You can tack a shit ton of mileage on them as long as you follow the maintenance schedule. What about an 05/06 Mitsubishi Evolution? Slightly lower curb weight than a WRX and a little more power. The difficult thing is finding one that wasn't beat. Not impossible but be prepared to look at a few. Or an Audi TT? You've survived a small car for quite some time and you can pick up a damn nice 2008ish TT for cheap. And you can choose between turbo & non-turbo motors.