That? That is my Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator!

My roommate has recently become a gun enthusiast over the last year or so. He fired off his first few rounds and was hooked. I don't blame him. But now, he wants every gun that he's even moderately attracted to. Its getting a little crazy.

The problem here is that he thinks my Mosin-Nagant would make a good home defense weapon. Its a 7.62x54R. Its the biggest gun in the house. Luckily, its my gun and not his. It stays locked up. I'm just glad that he let me teach him gun safety before he made his first purchase. Having known him my whole life, he is NOT the kind of guy you want running lose with a firearm.

Its all about safety training.

 

I've made this analogy before: firearms are like cars. Passing a basic hunter safety course and learning how to fire a gun is like getting your driver's license. You're just good enough to get on the roads with other drivers, provided you are very cautious, use sound judgment, and don't drive past your comfort zone. Hopefully.

A no-shit home invasion scenario is like the Daytona 500. It's way, WAY out of the league of someone who just got their drivers license, and putting them on the track with a car would put them in MORE danger, not less, and it would certainly put all the other drivers on the track in danger too. Defensive combat tactics, techniques, and shooting styles are a world away from "I know to treat this gun like it was loaded always, clean it, load it, and fire a few rounds safely."

I don't have kids, so all my guns just kinda lean against the wall in my bedroom. There is an M4, an AK-47, and a 12 gauge shotgun. If someone comes in my house, I'm grabbing the shotgun and it's loaded for such a thing. But I've conducted no-shit quickie training scenarios with my roommate in the house in case someone breaks in, what the signals are between us, and ironed out how we'd proceed. But we're military idiots who have shot millions of rounds and gone on countless real world missions clearing houses. I don't recommend such a thing for most people. Or anybody, really.

I've said it a billion times, but I'll say it again: the best home defense weapon is a few flood lights in the living room and kitchen, wired to a switch in your bedroom. Hear a kicked in door, or a broken window? Turn that fucker on, grab your scatter gun, crack the door, and watch for a few moments. No more noises? Go check it out, slowly and carefully, underneath that good light. 99% of all would-be thieves will scram if they think the residents are home. If not, that's why you are watching from the bedroom (or other good concealed vantage point): if they do get froggy and try to come to where people are sleeping, write 'em an express ticket to Hell.

 

I personally use 3 dogs at my house so I don't have to shoot anyone, but with the M4 type weapon there is a number of different rounds available in 5.56 that are designed for close quarter stuff, in addition to that their are numerous calibers available on a similar platform. With all due respect, it absurdly dumb for you to decide what type of weapon is best for someone else, your personal distaste for these types of weapons for home defense has clouded your judgement. There is a huge market for these types of guns for home defense, they are effective regardless of your opinion.

 

Nope, I don't have any idea what I'm talking about when it comes to this stuff.

The only practical round in 5.56 for home defense where other people are in the house is SRTA (Short Range Training Ammo). It's sort of a plastic tipped thing that'll kill but won't penetrate walls. We use it in shoot houses that can't handle 62 grain. The 55 grain frangible stuff still penetrates like crazy, and the guys I know who have are pretty much "meh" on how much "better" it kills people short range.

The market for these guns for home defense is based purely on the fact that people think they "look cool." Period. The round is far too hot velocity wise (yes, even the 6.8 SPC, which is FAR too expensive for most people to shoot regularly), and the 16" versions that are legal (unless you have a Form 1 SBR) are extremely unwieldy for using indoors (which is why both my work gun and my personal gun have 10.5" barrels). I'd much sooner grab my AK than my M4 if someone broke into my house, as I trust 7.62x39 more for that sort of thing (although there are still penetration issues).

Look, if you're creeping around your house because you heard a noise with an M4, the tendrils of adrenaline gripping tight, and you accidentally shoot your neighbor who came over to surprise you with some early morning bagels, they are going to be dead. And a big, scary M4 is going to be shown to your jury at the trail. A shotgun with rock salt rounds will hurt and maim, sure, but at least they are still alive. The second buckshot round in the tube is for when they AREN'T your neighbor.

 

I know how you feel. I've lived both sides of the coin. I used to think carrying a gun was dumb, until I was in a position where I really, REALLY wanted one. So now I carry a little pocket gun so that won't happen again. One of those "rather have it and not need it" sort of things.

The swimming pool point was made earlier, so I won't make it again, but guns are only as dangerous at the people holding them. Everyone I know that has kids and guns has taught their kids proper gun safety. If they don't, they are stupid... like having a swimming pool and not teaching their kids to swim (dammit!). Or cordless power tools. But two kids fucking each other up with a Dewalt saw doesn't get any time on the news because, well, it's not a gun. Firearms, just like everything else, boils down to responsibility and good stewardship.

As an aside, I don't consider any of the places you've listed as dangerous, at all. The wrong side of Beirut, Grozzny, Detroit, or a lot of other cities are different. I have friends that were killed in the Philippines for being American. I'll be the first to admit I'm jaded because I've spent a lot of my adult life rolling around dangerous cities waiting to get shot at or blown up, so I feel naked in many circumstances without a gun. The hair on my neck is faster to stand up than most people, for sure, but I'd hardly say it governs my life. In fact, I've been able to go places and do things very few others wouldn't in some countries because I'm able to reasonably evaluate the risk and take the proper precautions.

 

Please, I never once said you did know anything so spare me that condescending happy horseshit. Your opinion on the M4 for home defense does not make it the fucking gospel it is your opinion, you are free to use whatever you choose, and based on your knowledge and experience you have made that choice. If you want to protect your house with a cannon that is fine as long as you are responsible for every thing that comes out of the end of it and the damage it does.

 

My entire house is rigged with C4. No home invader is getting out of there alive I guarantee you that.

 

I would like to hear the board's opinion on this. I don't have kids and probably never will, but I'm curious. I disagree, but can only offer evidence from personal experience.

As I child I grew up in a home where there was a loaded and chambered 12 gauge shotgun within view and reach. Did my brothers, myself, or any of our friends ever even touch it? Fuck no we didn't. I don't think this is that exceptional, but maybe it is. When I was 10 or 11 I distinctly remember hearing about a kid who shot himself with a gun he found in a closet and thinking "dang, that kid must have been retarded." We knew basic gun safety and guns lost all of their exotic nature after hours upon hours of shooting practice for 4-H riflery competitions. Maybe that was the real key, because guns kind of sucked at that point. I actually never shot the gun in question until I was 13 or so.

The under lock and key method might be the way for people who are unwilling to educate their children, but it doesn't have to be that way. And it may make it worse since keys can always be found.

And as far as friends/visitors go, if they are dumb enough to start fucking around with a gun without your permission/supervision then I suggest new friends. However, I have no idea about the legal liability issues. If someone does know the answer to that I would like to see it posted.

I guess my approach to having a weapon in the house is this:

 

I really didn't want to post in this thread.

I don't like guns. I grew up around guns and I just don't like them.

That being said, I will instruct my sons and daughter on gun safety someday. Well, I'll pay someone else to do it as my knowledge of gun safety is limited to "always treat it as if it was loaded" and "don't point it at anyone".

I have a serious alarm system, complete with floods, lines to the police, and pretty much everything else you can buy commercially. Added to that is a floodlight attached to the telephone pole just outside the house (separate from the alarm system) that shines on the front lawn, porch, and door that I pay Entergy to maintain.

My defensive posture is run like hell. We have practiced emergency evacuations from the house, from using bedsheets as ropes to knowing which neighbor's houses are safe.

I want people to be able to have guns in their house. (I don't want guns in my house, but that's my choice.) What I want is a little, just a tiny bit, of confidence that the people that own guns have even the vaguest idea of what the hell they are doing when they put a finger on the trigger. I have zero confidence this is the case currently.

 

You're the one who is getting prickly instead of actually debating the merits of using a Stoner platformed rifle for home defense, not me. Obviously there are people who can use it, and use it well. There is a reason our Praetorian Guard carries them. But for MOST people in MOST situations, it is a terrible choice.

You've stated, as pros, the weapon is good because:
-it is highly configurable
-it comes in many caliber variants
-safe home defense ammunition is readily available (I call bullshit)
..and, not much else.

As to recap, as cons:
-because it is configurable, people put offensive things like weapon lights on them, lessening their safety as a defense weapon
-the round has an extremely high velocity
-it is unwieldy in an indoors environment
-it looks "evil" and is the poster child for the assault weapons ban, not helping your chances in court
-its "stopping power", as compared to other options, is low, as the rounds tend to pass right on through the target. An important consideration when you make be less than a few paces from someone with a knife or gun.
-a decent one is expensive, costing double or triple that of a decent shotgun

If I'm missing other pros, let me know. Otherwise consider my judgment "clouded" on the issue.

 

Well you can always rely on the professionals.



Oh.

(Shit, that fucker is TOUGH to walk that off though).

 

Okay, now I would like to make a few points.

First point: If you are allowing visitors in your house that randomly fuck with firearms I am going to question the commons sense and intelligence that you have for letting a moron like that in your house. Who the fuck does that?

Secondly: MOST, people that own firearms, when their are kids around, lock them up. No responsible individual just lets kids around unlocked up firearms. Once again, common sense.

Thirdly: The point of "protection" is to protect ones self or family. Why the hell would I have a gun with its ammunition elsewhere? My guns are loaded at all times. That would be like having a guard dog without a bark or teeth. Pointless. There is NO law anywhere, saying that I need to keep my ammunition elsewhere. My hunter safety course never taught that either.

Fourthly: Speaking of dogs, a dog doesn't always work for protection. What happens when your burglar shoots Fido or poisons him? Gameover.

Fifthly: I have lived in Brazil and the Dominican Republic. Shall we talk about the muggings, robbery's, and how many times the houses were broken into on my street? Did I also mention that I had armed gaurds with AK 47s? No neighborhood is perfect. I can tell you that the shotgun behind my bedroom door is going to do a better job defending my family better than any dog, baseball bat, or karate belt.

Sixthly: "Oh no, guns are dangerous!!! The kill people." That's fucking bullshit. People kill people. A pencil in the wrong hands could kill someone. A knife in the wrong hands could kill someone. Oh, wait, I bet you don't eat with just chopsticks. You use a knife right? Oh, god, maybe we should yank those away from every body too! How about pepper spray?

Try getting educated about guns. How to use them PROPERLY. Alot of fear comes because of the unkown. Clearly there is alot of unknown in this thread.