I'm an ignorant piece of shit? Come on man. I'm making a joke and trying to have a conversation with you.
I'm not sure whether the entirety of the squeamishness can be attributed to societal taboos against incest. The Westermarck Effect -- the idea that people who are raised in close proximity naturally become sexually desensitized -- appears to supersede any familial relation. In fact, according to research (which is of course, shaky at best), two unrelated people that were raised together from birth would be less likely to be attracted to each other than two related people who were raised entirely separately. Does this speak to the relative morality of it? Not even a bit. But I think it might add a layer to the discussion, especially with respect to comfort and safety.
I'll tell you what - it has no place here in this thread, but I've been thinking of trying to start a thread about that kind of viewpoint and/or joke, and the use of words or phrases like "that's so gay," and "faggot." I'll use your post to try to write it, and we'll pick it up there. For now, suffice it to say that my "what the fuck did you just say?" response to you saying that to me in person would be no different if you'd made a series of "jokes" about "niggers" and the types of "monkey games" they get up to. Imagine you have an 11 year old brother. Imagine he's gay. Imagine what it would do to him, in his confusion over who he's supposed to have crushes on and hearing people condemn his feelings and equate "gay" with "stupid," to hear his big brother saying that shit. Let's let it lie here - I'll write up a thread and if the fellas want to let it run, we'll talk about it there.
I caught my wife screwing my optometrist......I never saw it coming. (rimshot) Seriously though I almost wonder if that letter was a guy just trolling to see if some paper would print it. That seems just an over the top situation, however it is written as to be plausible and spark discussion. Myself, I was raised rather conservatively and I just can't get over the simple fact that he is fucking his brother, can't do it. The fact his brother wants others to accept it means that likely somewhere inside his brother feels this might be wrong and needs someone to tell him it isn't, or perhaps there is the fact that the story could be more along the lines that it wasn't as mutual as the author implies and it is more a situation where he began molesting his brother at a young age and the brother simply is trying to find a way out. There is simple far too much going on in this incestuous situation for a group of rambling lunatics to unravel. As for guilty pleasures being reading advice columns (I get that) I used to read personal ads for the entertainment. I recall one years ago that stated the age range from 19-74 or something, and all I could wonder, is "how did he make 74 the cut off here, is 75 REALLY going to be the deal breaker at this point?"
Back in the day this is the kind of thread we would have picked up from another forum for the purpose of wahooing.
Yeah, or one of the twins is dominant, and has been using the one writing as nothing more than a sexual toy for his own reasons for years, and the submissive one is trying to rationalize it now. "We really love each other, and so on." Sounds far more like an sexually abusive sibling relationship than some magical soul-mate relationship.
Back to focus: I know a girl, who had a crush on her high school teacher throughout all of high school. She would visit him for help with her homework and what not. Fast forward 5-6 years; bitch is 21 now. They end up getting together for a couple of drinks and then they start fucking like rabbits. This was a year ago. He has since stopped talking to her, but not after running through a couple more of his former students. Sketch shit.
Dated a 42 year old hot cougar when I was 23. Ah business travel and tradeshows. She was a freak too. I thought I knew how to party and get down until I woke up the first morning with her... she ran me into the ground. Hard. A co-worker went over to Fiji to meet a woman and get married. A friend of his had done the same and had excellent results. Fijian women are supposedly like housewives from the 1950's, wanting nothing more than to take care of their man, keep house, and serve up excellent meals. My co-worker was not so lucky. His new wife had all sorts of ambitions and expectations about the life she'd be living in the good ole USA. It was as if she had been watching nothing but infomercials about "streets paved with gold" or something along those lines.
One of my favorite teachers in high school was fired, years after I had graduated, for having a relationship with a former student. If I had to guess, they probably started dating a couple years after she graduated, making her 20ish and him a young middle-age. It's a shame because the guy was a great teacher; one of the better ones I ever had. He taught advanced science classes and everyone I knew who had him liked his classes and understood the material. The rumor-mill story that came out after he was fired was that this girl went public with the story when he broke up with her. Of course, on the other hand, it's sketchy and weird to date former students who are about half your age. The mail order bride thing always seemed particularly creepy to me. Going to a foreign country with the sole intention of finding a woman more docile/better looking than what you could get at home is odd.
... Oh, the joys of teaching high school. The suspicious relationships I encountered when I was in that racket. One of my colleagues, who I actually went to high school with myself, recently disappeared amidst all sorts of rumors. Naturally, I had no clue what to actually believe, since all the information was second hand from high school kids and teachers. But it turns out, he had an affair with a student - he was 25, she was 16. He was promptly fired and hightailed it out of town. Last I heard he quit teaching altogether. My high school chemistry teacher married one of his former students a year after she graduated. He was exactly twice her age when they tied the knot. I doubt they held off doing anything until graduation. When I was teaching myself, it wasn't all that uncommon to hear about faculty members dating one another. I don't mean Jim and Pam from the Office, gushy-romantic type dating - more like "we're both married, hate our spouses, let's get it on in the seldom-used faculty restroom in the math wing" style of dating. One vice principal at the school I taught at was fired after their relationship with another VP turned sour. A fellow science teacher would freely give his cell number to students for "extra help" as he called it. Because it's professional to be 26 and get drunk with 17 year olds if you say you're 'tutoring,' right? Ugh. I was in another teacher's classroom when I noticed a prescription pill bottle on the desk in plain sight (no, I promise I wasn't snooping.) The room belonged to a female, the name on the meds was that of another male teacher (married) that taught on the other side of the school. It was a prescription for Valtrex. The school I taught at was somewhat different, since it didn't have the usual bell-curve when it came to teacher age. Most teachers there were in their 20s or 30s, a few 40s, and not much above that. Having a much younger workforce is what contributed to a lot of these things, at least in my opinion. Even worse was the fact that a lot of the teachers weren't much better with gossip and rumors than the students - my first day there, my co-op teacher told me to hang out by the guidance offices "if you want to get the juiciest gossip." I just did a facepalm and shrugged. Every week, rumors swirled around about these things and I ignored most of them, but still. I definitely observed a ton of suspicious rendezvous. Fun times in high school teaching.
Meh. There's not that huge a difference between a twin and another brother. Primarily the big difference is that you are in the same "school year." Back to your point, the trust thing as far as relationships would actually suck badly. Sometimes when you are around people that know you very well - parents, siblings, close cousins, close friends that have known you forever --- the fact that they know you so well actually stifles creativity, exploration, and new expression to an extent. True, you are very free to "be yourself" among people who know you well. HOWEVER, you are NOT free to "not be yourself." You ever try a new hobby, a new direction, a new attitude, change your values --- attempt to change up your clothes or style -- you are going to get push back. I mean, you ever go off to college, or a foreign country where no one knows you, and you could just --- fuck around? Be whoever you want to be? Reinvent yourself to an extent? Try on something else? You can't do that in a relationship with someone who knows you VERY well. You would be seen as a fake. An impostor. Cognitive dissonance would be shooting out your ass. Hard to explain really. I mean you could of course make some big changes to your job, outlook, attitude, etc., while in close proximity to your family, but everything needs a fucking reason or explanation. With a girlfriend who's known you for 0-12 months, maybe even three times as long, none of these change-ups would be as noteworthy or require explanation. Hence, why being in a relationship with a lifelong childhood friend would largely blow.
Focus: My junior year of high school, a student in one of my AP Classes (a senior) was dating a teacher. She was 18, so she was of 'legal age,' and the vast majority of the student body knew about it. Still, it seems like something he should be fired over, but he wasn't. My senior year, after she graduated, he started getting a lot of shit for dating a now former student. Faculty were looking down on him and making snide remarks, and students were being our usual merciless selves ("I hear he'll give you an A if you blow him," kind of stuff, usually in his classroom, loud enough for him to hear). In response, he wrote a long, rambling letter and put it in the yearbook. Since he was the yearbook editor, and he was responsible for what went into it, no one thought to double check it. It was addressed directly to his girlfriend, and basically amounted to "the entire student body and faculty will never understand us because they're so immature and stupid, but you're not." The phrases "catty bitches" and "my unenlightened peers and bosses" was in the letter. I recall those being particularly funny. When the yearbooks finally come out, early in the next school year, they are only out for about three days before the uproar over the letter peaks. The school was forced to recall all of the yearbooks, so that they could edit them. Most students returned them, although a few were smart enough to refuse to return theirs. I, personally, never bought one, because I hated my high school and the majority of those I graduated with, so I didn't bother. Not only was the letter edited out, but so were several pictures of the two, along with pictures the school deemed inappropriate that shouldn't have been printed (i.e. girls in super shirt skirts or with their underwear showing). My wife has a copy, and there are fifteen pages of it that are either completely blank or half-blank where they just pasted over the pictures before returning them. Now, one would think that, when all was said and done, this teacher would be fired. After all, he: 1) Had an affair with a student while she was still attending the school 2) Continued to date said student after she graduated 3) Wrote an insulting letter about the student body and faculty in the yearbook 4) Let many questionable images through into the yearbook and 5) Forced the school to "recall" the yearbook in an attempt at damage control The sad reality? He still teaches there, to this day. The girl? She is also now a teacher, also at a local school, although luckily not at the same school. How the fuck does he still work there?