Rutgers coach Mike Rice was just fired for yelling at and "abusing" players. Personally, I think this situation would have played out much differently if this was a winning coach that made it to the Final Four, or even the tournament. Plus, these werent 12 year olds. These were athletic, 18-22 year olds that were no physical danger and experienced nothing more than what the Indiana players dealt with during the Bobby Knight era. This is a reaction to the bad publicity, not actually what the coach did. Focus: Is this a big deal? Should this guy have been fired? Alt. Focus: Ever been on the receiving end of an overzealous coach's wrath?
Once it got out that he was yelling homophobic slurs and throwing stuff at people's heads, he absolutely had to get fired. He acted pretty terribly, but it's not at all surprising or unique; he just happened to get caught. It's kind of like politicians -- just because they're all doing it doesn't mean that we should just look the other way when their terrible behavior comes to light.
Last article I read was that he got hit with 50k in fines plus three games, but when I saw every major sports news site had an article about it I knew his ass was getting shit canned.
One of my old rugby coaches was also a player. If players physically confronting him (myself included) for being a Class 1 prick wasn't enough, he sealed his fate when he tackled the ref during a match and started a brawl. The entire team was happy to get rid of that English bastard. On the other hand, I do miss old school rugby.
Being a hard ass is one thing, but this guy was being an impatient dick. While I agree with him being shitcanned, the fine seems like a bit much.
People seem like they've been quick to jump on the "kids are spoiled/this is what is wrong with America" contrarian train to say that kids are too soft these days. I think that is a bit excessive. I have no problem with a coach "motherfucker"-ing a kid up and down the court. Sometimes 18 year old athletes are spoiled, coddled shitheads that need to get lit up to respond. However, once you get caught laying a bunch of slurs on tape and pelting people in the fucking head with basketballs, it gets excessive and something has to get done. I will agree the expectations and standards have shifted over the years. Comparisons to Bobby Knight are always made in situations like this, however, I would be curious as to how many players would leap to defend Rice. Sure there are the Neil Reed's who came out against Knight, but by and large he was loved and respected by the vast majority of his players and his assistants. Al McGuire is a legend at Marquette and he used to push his players so aggressively that he got into physical altercations with a few of them. But not a single one would speak poorly about him after the fact, all glowing praise. If that was on tape, as everything is in this day and age, he might have been fired, i dont know. Bottom line, these videos of practice exist at every school, so he must have really pissed some people, including his assistants, off to the extent that this all came out. And, you know, cause Rutgers sucks. Have fun with that addition Jim Delany you money hungry fuckface.
This. Putting your hands on guys, kicking them, and verbally abusing them is not effective motivation.
Bobby Knight would be so proud. There are degrees of being a coach, some days you're the nice guy and some days you're not. I'd imagine this has been going on for some time but this time it was caught on tape and basically exploited all over the fucking news, as per usual with this kind of thing. I get so sick of the overzealous people with nothing better to do than hang someone for something like this. Yeah yeah I know the guy was all up in their face. Yes I realize he had the nerve to throw the ball at your son's foot. What we do not get in the video is the audio of what went on before each of the incidents. It may make no difference. In fact, it may even make it worse (to some. ie: he SWORE AT MY SON!!!*GASP*) but, I am one that does not think the guy deserved to be shitcanned. But hey, maybe they can get one of the kids Moms to come on down and take over. I'm sure she'd bring cookies warm out of the oven for them. That would be so much better.
You work for a university, you get caught screaming slurs on camera, it gets publicized, you should be fired. I'm not scandalized, or anything -- coaches are assholes (except mine, if you're reading!) -- but you can't bring that much bad press and expect it to be all good.
Agreed. And IMO this is more of what it boils down to, not actually that the guy is an asshole and therefor a bad coach. And Nom, I'm calling your coach now. You'll be riding the bench!
Semi-related -- I live in a three family house, and the couple across the hall always has loud screaming fights. Well, I always hear the dude screaming loudly; I mostly just hear the woman apologizing for real or imagined slights. I was unsurprised find out he's a football coach at a well-known college.
The days of Woody Hayes are long gone. Its been established for sometime what is and is not acceptable conduct for a coach. Its fairly black and white. For me, the more offensive thing is throwing the basketballs at the players, thats childish and very unprofessional. I remember when Bob Knight got canned for choking a student, this isn't in the same league as that but is in line. Physical intimidation of athletes or anyone else is no longer a tolerated part of sports. Coaches anymore are more managers than anything else. Yes, some prefer to be the general, but thats not longer effective as the athletes know what is and is not tolerated. The best coaches motivate through the players respect and/or fear of them, but that fear is fear of not getting playing time or getting booted off the team, not fear of physical harassment. Does he deserve to get fired? Sure, look at his record. And he deserves to get fired because of the black eye he gave the university. To me, sports are sports, and offensive language just comes with the territory. I'm sure quite a few people will disagree with me.
My Water Polo coach once nailed me with a ball to the face from about six feet away for not, according to him, employing correct dummying technique (I was 22 at the time, mark you) There was a shocked, stunned silence that went on for about 30 seconds as I did a Kubler-Ross Spoiler Denial: Did this cunt really just nail me in the face with a ball? Anger: I'm gonna fucking murder his fucking scrawny old-man ass. I will beat him until the pool-water goes red. Bargaining: Prison is bad though. Depression: Wow, that was a pretty colossal breach of trust, he's like 30 years older than me. Acceptance: Fuck this, I'm out. And then training proceeded as normally as it could under the circumstances. I quit the team the next day. I have no problem with verbal abuse so long as it's merited, but abusing your position of power over an athlete (because that's what being a coach is - your coach can basically determine your entire career, particularly on a team sport. When he plays you, how he plays you, if he plays you and for how long, it's all down to how well you get along with him and how much he likes you as much as it is to your actual talent) by physically striking them is crossing a fucking line.
I think the fire is really coming down to the basketball thrown at heads, the usage of faggot and cunt*, and the fact he looks like a psycho when he's screaming. I really don't think the shoves are a big deal, in all reality, those players could one hitter quitter his ass if necessary. Also, those shoves didn't seem more than the picks players get hit with in games. The grabbing of jersey thing always looks worse than it is. I guess I mostly agree with Nom on this, its basically blown up because someone leaked it and made it a big deal. This definitely happens way more. Someone had it out for him. He went a bit too far and that's it. *To you non-Americans, not sure if this is clear, but this is still a shock word over here.
Well her coworkers also doesn't pound her in the chest for a sweet presentation either. We can't compare this to office life or other forms of motivation. In football they bang heads (we're kinda learning those helmets don't protect much) or slap eachother's helmets. Basketball they do that jumping shoulder bump thing and shove each others as a "good job, you're the man!" So that aspect of the physicality is all good within the means of sport. What they DON'T DO is throw balls at heads. That guy is a dick. Good riddance.
Yes, but there's a distinction that can be drawn between those things and actual violence used as punishment.
I think the shoves are a big deal. He is in a position of power over these kids. Yes, they could all drop his ass in one punch if they wanted, but ask yourself this; you're a 19 year old kid playing in a major college basketball program on a scholarship, and your coach shoves you or chucking basketballs at your head. You know if you hit him back, which is your instinct, you risk losing your scholarship, losing a potential professional basketball career, and maybe even going to prison. Even if you're not a scholarship athlete, you're a player that busted their ass to make the team, and now you're going to risk your spot to fight back against the coach, because who are they going to believe? The coach or the "coddled kid athlete?" More often than not, the story that comes out is "Player attacks coach!" The kid is then forced to sit back and take it. They really don't have a recourse, because the punishment for the kid for attacking a coach is going to be way more severe than the punishment for the coach who instigated it. No kid should ever be put in that position, and any coach that puts their hands on a player for any reason in this day and age deserves to be fired. Some of these kids have NBA prospects that they see flash before their eyes when a coach gets physical. Others are playing at the highest level they'll ever make, and they know it, and they don't want to risk giving that up because the coach is an asswipe. The reality is no coach should ever put a kid in a position to have to defend themselves and potentially ruin their future because the coach has no self control.
MCB to equate the two "work places" isn't right. But, we agree to disagree. As well as you have my apologies, my puter freaked out and I thought you'd double posted. The post is still here due to Parkers quote and post. Really sorry man it was not intentional.