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So, Lance, about that drug-free status...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dcc001, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. Dcc001

    Dcc001
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    Lance Armstrong has completed an interview with Oprah Winfrey (because that's who all celebrities go to when they feel the need to reinvent themselves publicly with a tearful confession), apologizing for his drug use and admitting to doping. Which should come as no surprise to anyone.

    It started off a heated debate in our office, though.

    Focus: Should athletes be held to a higher moral standard, because they are seen as role models by young children? Or should we be raising our children that professional athletes are businessmen and nothing more, and teach them to admire people NOT for their pop culture contributions?
     
  2. MoreCowbell

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    I can't figure out for the life of me why he'd bother admitting it now. The Pete Rose approach seems far wiser at this point, as his public image is essentially unsalvageable. Also isn't he essentially a failure by ANY moral standard, let alone an elevated one?

    Also:

     
    #2 MoreCowbell, Jan 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  3. Dcc001

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    Do you think? See, I thought the opposite. If I was handling this from a PR standpoint, I'd follow this timeline:

    - Let the governing body come out with their accusations and their ironclad proof.
    - Lay low and not comment.
    - Some time later, come out with a tearful confession, a tell-all book and an aura of contrition.
    - Become an advocate/crusader for a world without doping and spearhead THAT movement.
    - Strategically, over the next several years, become a "good guy" in the eyes of the public again via charitable work and advocacy.

    It worked for Ray Lewis. Lewis is in the sunset of his career and NO ONE is worried that he most probably murdered his buddy with a knife in the street 13 years ago.
     
  4. MoreCowbell

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    (1) No one, be it doping related or charity, is going to touch him with a ten foot pole.
    (2) Ray Lewis was able to do this because he was acquitted and because he won't shut the fuck up about Jesus. Also, to this day, Ray Lewis fervently denies any role in the murder. So Ray Lewis actually took the approach I'm suggesting: Deny, Deny, Deny and eventually everyone will forget/come over to your side. It worked for Shoeless Joe Jackson too. Or, outside of sports, Ted Kennedy.
     
  5. shimmered

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    I haven't figured out yet why it's a big deal. Not the lying, the actual doping.

    They all dope. They ALL do it. He was just the best cheater cheating.
     
  6. Noland

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    Professional athletes are, for the most part, children themselves. There are a few obvious exceptions to this rule, but mainly they are arrogant twats. I'll respect the hell out of them for their ability to run fast or throw something or catch something or hit something with a stick, but revering them as some sort of brand of special human being because they have a God given talent? No. I won't do that.

    Keep on holding them to a higher moral standard if you want, but you will be disappointed pretty much every time.
     
  7. D26

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    It wasn't just that he cheated, it was that he completely and totally destroyed anyone that attempted to call him on it publicly. He used his position, money, and power to stomp down, both personally and professionally, anyone that accused him of doing exactly what he was doing.

    Here are a couple articles with some examples of Lance Armstrong's bullying tactics:

    Lance Armstrong is a bully.

    Questions that SHOULD be asked of Lance Armstrong.

    A few examples if you don't feel like reading:

    Betsy Andreau, wife of a former teammate, testified that Armstrong admitted to a doctor (in her presence) to taking EPO and HGH. He came forward and called her a liar, petty, and jealous of his success. She also received threatening phone calls from friends of Lance Armstrong.

    When Former Tour De France winner Greg LeMond questioned Lance publicly, Armstrong used his influence to attempt to destroy LeMond financially.

    The worst was a woman named Emma O'Reilly, who was supposed to give massages to the racers on the US Postal team after races. Instead, she ended up transporting their drugs across countries. He spread word that she was a prostitute and an alcoholic, and sued her for more than she was even worth, basically destroying her life.

    Lance Armstrong is just fucking awful, and unless he actually comes forward and apologizes to all the people he went after like a rabid pitbull when they dared to speak the truth about his doping, he can't ever really rescue his reputation.
     
  8. JWags

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    Cause he was a fraud. If everyone in your class is cheating on a test, don't call everyone out for cheating when you get a 100 on the test cheating like them. There was enough plausible deniability about it all for him to skirt by, but he was a self-righteous bag of dicks most of his career, and by most empirical accounts, a fucking douchebag, so when it came out that he was just as bad as everyone else all along, people were more than happy to crucify him.

    I've found that most of these dudes caught juicing usually have accompanying personalities and stereotypes with them that leave a bad taste in people's mouths to begin with, then being caught breaking rules is just the icing on the cake. On the other hand, look at Sammy Sosa. Even as a Cubs fan, I know he was juicing like all the rest and he tried to pretend he didn't speak English in front of the hearing board, but he was always likeable and affable and despite being lumped in with some of the others, his name isn't smeared like Bonds or McGwire regularly (though their record holding didnt help with purists), he only gets mentioned now cause his post baseball life has been kind of hilarious.

    This is a good point. You can hope they are good dudes, but don't expect shit. Thats why I find myself pleasantly surprised when you meet a professional athlete and they are humble/friendly/etc... I don't blame them for getting like they are, and I don't want to dive into the rabbit hole of what "true role models" should be like, but I can understand how they get the way they are. Hell, I was in a leadership position in a fraternity in college and had younger members think I was something special when I was a senior. It was ridiculous, but over time, you begin believing that you are and you treat people differently. That was 8 months with some idiot freshman and sophomores. I can't imagine the better part of your life with EVERYONE treating you like that. I'm pretty sure I would be an insufferable douche.

    To that point, athletes who in the face of all of that are polite, humble, respectful, not just on camera but off the field, are actually probably good role models. Not for their athletic achievements, but rather their behavior and conduct when all the decks are stacked for them to be complete fuckfaces and get away with it. But at the same time, if they eventually falter, don't be shocked.
     
  9. trojanstf

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    Wanted to second this. Peoplee don't seem to understand how much of a dick he seems to be. And since I would believe most of the testimony of others at this point, its likely that his doping predates his cancer. I wouldn't put it past him to have started his cancer campaign wiith a major intention of covering up his drug use. If it was simply he cheated in the dirtiest sport in history that's one thing. But to ruin numrous peoples lives because you're an asshole is completely different. And considering he was fighting these charges within the past six months I highly doubt he all of a sudden feels remorse.
     
  10. Frank

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    I just hope Ballsack is okay, he's been such an ardent supporter of Lance since the get go.
     
  11. Misanthropic

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    Okay, this is going to sound crazy. But I have this idea. Maybe - just maybe - parents should start being fucking parents and teach their kids the difference between respecting what athletes can do, and respecting them as human beings.

    So to answer the focus question, neither.

    And these (with no apologies to Lance):

    "Balls" cried the Queen, "If I had two, I would be King!"

    Your father is one of the most timid men i know. He's just like a plain old Christmas tree...he's got no balls!

    "I love how people talk about one ball like it's a bad thing. It's like, we've all seen them, ladies. The less balls the better. How about no balls?" - Chelsea Handler
     
  12. TX.

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    Who cares? Everybody in Austin knows Lance is a grade-A asshole and has been for years. He's been known to flip over tables at restaurants and generally act like a spoiled toddler in public. Who knows what he's like one-on-one. Doping or not, that's enough to make him Not An Ideal Role Model.

    Focus: Role models? Fuck that. Being a world-class athlete doesn't make you a decent person.
     
  13. Binary

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    I wonder if he's going to get sued into oblivion because of this. I mean, he's been paid under a whole lot of contracts that forbid drug use, lied a whole lot of times, tried to ruin a whole lot of people... just seems like a bunch of angry people might end up having a field day with this in civil court.

    Also: agreed with the above. Parents should be more clear about what constitutes a role model, and being able to jump higher, run faster, hit harder is not one of the criteria.
     
  14. shimmered

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    I'm not excusing him being a grade a asshole...but he'd be a grade a asshole whether he doped or not.
     
  15. Kubla Kahn

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    I for one find Pete Rose's current attempt at image realignment hilarious:
    [​IMG]

    Trashy TLC reality show with huge tittied ex playmate makes me think his gambling in life has finally paid off.
     
  16. MoreCowbell

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    I'll take "People Who Love Casinos" for $300, Alex.
     
  17. ssycko

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    Yerp. I asked a producer who's worked on a ton of sports stuff who the worst person he'd ever worked with was. Bar none, Lance Armstrong. Like not even close to anyone else on the douchy-asshole scale.

    I figure if you're going to cheat, it's hard to fall back on "everybody else was doing it!" when nobody likes you.
     
  18. Dmix3

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    The fact that this "leaked" a few weeks ago just screams media manipulation by Armstrong to me. "Accidentally" having it come out you are thinking about admitting to it to gauge public interest is just lame. Supposedly he's also going to go full on snitch mode and name names of everyone that helped as well, since apparently the governing board of cycling offers reducements on bans if you turn state's evidence so to speak. Fuck him and his one ball.
     
  19. dixiebandit69

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    Athletes should be punished just like the rest of us. I don't know why people make such a big deal about them.

    However, I can think of one group of people who should be held to a higher moral standard and punished MORE severely when they fall from grace: Members of law enforcement. That includes cops, judges, DAs, probation officers, politicians, etc.

    Whenever one of them gets into trouble, either nothing happens to them, or they get a slap on the wrist. But if you or I do anything wrong, we get our asses nailed to the wall. It's total bullshit.
     
  20. JWags

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