I am curious about the difference between "spontaneity" and "really bad timing". One persons attempts at seduction while the other is juggling five things at once may seem like a really great idea to one person, while to the other it is really bad fucking timing. or as an alternate to that....after one person has shit everywhere and the other one vomited, sex would certainly be spontaneous or ....ewwww, gross!
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread If the other partner isn't even investing in the relationship, is it still cheating? That sub-human thing Gator mentioned in his post, being talked to like a dog, and treated like an intrusion, it can only happen for so long before either the subject's spirit breaks or the subject's spirit says fuck it and seeks solace elsewhere. I can't, don't, and won't judge. Me? I'm too selfish. I get once around on this merry wee planet, and I'll be damned if I'm going to live it in misery because someone else won't put the effort into me that I'm willing to put into him. Ain't happening. There will be down times, and I know that, but The Husband and I have maintained an ongoing conversation through the years about our expectations of one another and of ourselves individually. Promises are promises and I guess I'm only good as my word...but...Once. One lifetime. I don't want to be 80 years old and looking back and wishing I'd not spent so many years unhappy. Mya - really bad timing is, like you said - juggling five things and attempting seduction is a bad idea. PartnerA juggling five things and PartnerB saying "Hey, toss me two of those things and let's keep these up in the air" is a good idea, and arguably, a step into seduction.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Either that or just tell them flat out: "Hey, im super busy right now, but when im done im gonna fuck you like you owed me money!" Otherwise, bad timing is just excuses. Theres always gonna be a reason not to. Sometimes you gotta just make the time. I mean really, how long does a blowjob take?
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread That's a fair response as well. Either way - one partner helping the other or the other partner telling the first "Hey I'll get you, just gimme a few". But there's follow through. And there are also priorities. Because seriously. Does the dishwasher have to be loaded RIGHT THEN? Does the laundry need to be put in the dryer at that moment or can it wait 15-45 minutes?
Two thoughts have been occurring to me as I read the responses: 1. In my experience, sex vs affection and caring are a chicken-and-egg scenario. Unfortunately, it's reversed between the two sexes. I think that women typically need to feel loved and appreciated - in a completely non-sexual manner - in order to feel sexual. For men, sex is their pathway to access love and affection (because, sadly, in our culture men who just want affection can at times be adversely viewed). This plays out with the following steps: life happens, and both people are feeling stressed or tired or overworked or whatever. Maybe there's a bit of resentment on one or both sides, maybe not. The guy is apt to initiate sex. Not just for the sex, but as a pathway to get back to the love and affection. The woman can see this as, "Now he wants sex, too! If he thinks I want to fuck him when I'm [insert negative feeling], he's nuts." Or some version of that. So she turns him down. The situation gets worse, and after a time it can become: Man is resentful that he never gets sex (or subsequent love and affection), and therefore feels no urge to romance his partner (because she'll turn him down). Woman is resentful because the only time her partner initiates anything, it's for sex. She feels her other needs aren't being met, and is therefore not sexual towards him. From that small fissure, huge fractures in relationships grow. Not every time, but I see it repeated so much in so many married couples that I know that there has to be some truth to it. 2. I don't think people who cheat are weak. I think everyone makes the best decisions they can at any given time. Imagine Village Idiot's case, but imagine there are two young children involved. Over the years you find yourself in a completely unsatisfactory marriage. However, you're an ultra-dad who loves his kids like crazy and spends as much time with them as possible. Yes, you can divorce. But that pretty much guarantees you'll see your kids every other weekend and Tuesday nights. Also, you'll be paying spousal and child support indefinitely. You've tried to work it out with your wife and she isn't interested in change. So, you can't change your partner. You can't afford to separate. You have zero desire to see less of your children. Your wife won't ever agree to an open marriage. You have a normal, healthy sex drive. What is your best choice? What has the least collateral damage? Is it cheating? I'm not saying that it is. But I draw out ^ that story to maybe illustrate that the answer isn't always simple or easy (or possible).
This sort of rational self interest argument doesn't hold water with me because relationships involve two people and I see cheating as one of the worst things partners can do to each other. I think it's kind of a theme on this board that you should act like a grown up in these situations. If "the best decision they can make" at any given time is cheating then they aren't emotionally mature enough to face the problem head on. I can see cheating happening in that situation because it is the easy way out, but also has major reprocussions for the significant other. I applaud My Villiage Idiot for not straying that way in his situation, unless cheating got him there in the first place.
Oh I totally forgot about this. I think I posted it on here awhile ago, but it is definitely pertinent with the guys with wives that have had children. This woman, Ayelet Waldman wrote a book called "Bad Mother" after she wrote an article saying how she loved her husband more than her children. The interesting excerpt is this. The rest of the article sparked controversy because she goes on to say if she had to pick between her husband and children dying in a fire, she'd choose her husband, because with him, she can make more children (and more reasons) Side story, now my girlfriend and I met because she was part of a bachelorette party where the bride to be said outloud "Now that I'm getting married, I'll never have to give another blowjob." My friend took exception with that and conversation started. So there IS something to that line of thinking, but I also think there is a huge mixture of guys and girls looking at foreplay different. A lot of guys think foreplay as fingering, handjobs, eating pussy and blowjobs, where from my understanding women consider foreplay for them to be way more kissing, teasing and anticipation building.
What other option is there? One could argue that one of the worst things a partner can do to the other is marginalize, emasculate/defeminize, dehumanize, disregard, and essentially completely ignore the needs of the other. Cheating fucking sucks. It's hard on the relationship. But feeling like you're beneath the other person, ground down and beat down and just...man. Hearing the words "I'm not physically, emotionally, or intellectually attracted to you on any level" will fuck with your head a lot longer than you'd imagine. When one partner refuses, on any level, to budge or participate, what do you do??
So you cheat, she finds out, and the marriage gets torn apart through anger, distrust and resentment instead of dissolved when the two people don't hate each other. You end up in the same place, but one way got you there through making a difficult, adult decision whereas the other way got you there through deceit - and, of course, you've now set up a great example for your children. I'm just saying, if you're at the point where you're getting sex elsewhere without your partner's knowledge, the relationship is dead. You can either choose to end it or rebuild it, but cheating isn't helping either of those scenarios.
Exactly. At what point it total emotional & physical withdrawal not as devastating a betrayal as actually cheating? So you stay together why? So he can help pay the bills and she cooks a mean pot roast? Life is too short people. And there should be a mandatory waiting period on having kids like there is for handguns. At least 5 years. Then again, if couples had to wait 5 years, the birth rate would plummet.
But the kids... Cheating is like fighting...its never the answer. But sometimes, it helps get your message across.
Cut and dried, that sounds easy. Except it isn't. Especially when there's a history. And finances. And kids. Leaving is easy, but it'd be a shit load easier if she'd just open her mouth and suck, or if he'd just use his hard on for something besides filling his hand from time to time.
Sex with my girlfriend is very mechanical, and it suits us nicely. No post-coital cuddling, not a ton of foreplay, not a lot of passion, and that's perfectly fine with both of us. We go at it a few times a week; sometimes more, sometimes less. As for cheating, it's pretty terrible and there's only a handful of things I find more abhorrent. It's not the end-all-be-all of who a person is, but it's a nice expose of their integrity and honesty.
I think you have to thread an extremely small needle of circumstances before I would find cheating an acceptable circumstance. So sure, if the precisely half a dozen things necessary are in place, I won't consider it an abhorrent act. But the rest of the time, it's a terrible thing to do. Even if the relationship has gone to shit and you're not getting any and don't want to leave for some reason and they won't bend, then at least you upfront tell them that you're planning to sleep with other people. In many respects, this effectively ends the romantic part of the relationship for many couples even if a marriage remains legally binding. But it's not dishonest and it doesn't expose the other person to unknown risks. Now you're roommates who are legally married and are seeing other people. For the rare case where the person still very much loves their wife/husband, but sex is not on the table and there's zero way for anyone to be flexible enough to fix it... well, then the other person is treating you like shit and that's an important realization to have.
To me this is incredibly narrowsighted. If your partner up and tells you they no longer want to have sex with you and there are factors that preclude you from leaving, then the fact that you may want to face the problem means zilch if the other person doesn't want to also face it with you. It astounds me that if you were to replace anything other activity in place of sex that you had agreed to only do with your partner but they no longer want to do it with you, then it would be perfectly ok for one to do it somewhere else. But insert sex into the equation and everyone loses their ever loving minds.
I get that there are some reasons where cheating might be valid. I get that every relationship is unique and nuanced, and incredibly complex with an array of factors that help influence behavior. That said, if a girl ever cheated on me and I knew about it, that would be the end of the relationship. Period. Kids can grow up with parents in different households, as our generation has proven. Financial issues can be worked out with time and lawyers if needed. But the trust in a relationship, once broken like that, cannot be healed or regrown. Not for me. That being said, if your relationship is so broken that there is no longer a sexual component, or if you're on wildly different pages, break up. Get divorced. Become a free agent again. But do that before you start rutting elsewhere. In my opinion, once you've actually fucked someone else, that's when it has no chance of getting fixed.
Sex is the biggest deal maker and deal breaker in society. You look at the damage putting P in Va-G does to politician. You can legally bomb the wrong country and keep your job, but cheat on your wife? SCANDALOUS!!!!!!!
Sorry, I didn't want to derail with a topic about cheating - that's the focus of other threads. I just brought up that example to show that it isn't cut and dried in any circumstance.
Some background: My wife is a bit OCD. What does this have to do with anything? Well, she says she struggles getting in the mood if the house isn't clean or if there is some chore that needs doing. She will be thinking "I should be doing laundry" rather than "that feels good." She can't turn her brain off. It is just her personality. So many nights I find myself doing a ton of housework just so my wife won't have to worry about it and maybe, maybe we can have sex. The kicker is I am usually so tired from work, and then housework afterwards, that by the time I'm done I'm either too tired to bother or it is time to go to bed because I have to be up at 5 am for work. Luckily, there are weekends. That is our usual compromise. But the idea of being spontaneous is pretty much out the window for us. My wife is almost mentally incapable of it. As for the affection part mentioned earlier, I am very affectionate towards my wife. Neck rubs, kisses, cuddling, all that jazz. She has grown very accustomed to it. I've actually found that when I withhold that kind of affection, she gets more in the mood. I know it sounds like silly high school bullshit, and it is, but the bottom line is that it seems like the more affection I show her, the less interested she is in sex, but if I am less affectionate for whatever reason, suddenly her mood improves. I'm sure it is a subconscious "I'll prove he still wants me" thing, but it is one of the few things that absolutely works to get her in the mood. The problem there is I hate stupid games like that, so I am never intentionally shitty or distant to my wife to get sex. It's only when I am legit stressed or not in the mood that she will be all over me. Point is, every marriage is different, every partner is different. I happen to know my wife extremely well and what makes her tick, and we have made compromises to make it work. It may lack spontaneity at times, but there is no one "magic answer" to this question. Showing affection or being spontaneous may work for some, but it may not for others . It is different for every relationship.