Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread EDIT: OH SHIT, I'M WAY BEHIND. Please don't yell at me. I'll read up and do better. I drifted off writing this... Revenge/Wheelz I tried to quote some wonderful posts that were far more eloquent and intelligent than mine, but I got (internet) yelled at for trying to tag too many, soooo, here's me jumping on the Revenge Is Being A Dick back with no quotes behind me: I am typically inable (unable? I'm drunk) to be offended, but holy Shitballs, that blows my mind. Such lack of compassion for his struggle and recognition of his brilliant mind that has contributed to these boards and his resolve to the State of California on behalf of the disabled. Shame on you. I'm seriously disappointed in you Revenge. We are a collection of odd people, but I thought better of you. I'm going to go suck a toe and lick a hairy ass. Keep fighting Raul (Rual). Revenge, I am but a naive woman who always believes that people are great (been bitten 80 times but am trying not to give up). When and if you come back, please explain. I refuse to accept that you meant that as it sounded.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Well. I guess I'd argue the "how could you do this" is still legit. The answer isn't cheating - you (the royal You, not You, Ballsack) either work through it with your partner, or leave them. Flat-out betraying their trust and/or humiliating them isn't right. I've always felt pretty strongly that cheating is a sign of a weak person. You can't address what's wrong, or maybe nothing's wrong and you just can't resist temptation, and cheating is the easy way out in lieu of resolving the actual problems.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread It's nearly 7am and I'm Sunday Funday drunk, but I'll jump in here with a completely different voice. I was practically a virgin when I met him at 23. Married and had our child by 24. My husband was passive and although he did his best to pleasure me first, I always found it a chore. I felt no desire. Keeping opposite work hours, different sleep schedules and passing our kid off didn't help. Sex was an occasional chore. It only ramped up when I (got fat over years) lost 50 lbs and was turning 40. I still don't know what made the difference, but my sex drive went through the roof. Lost weight, lost my career, lost (left) my husband and discovered sex. I will never have a relationship without great sex again, until I'm unable to. That constant smile that happens when you're getting great sex.....mmmmm. I don't care about your bank account. I don't care about mine. The throw pillows and your relatives? Gardens? Really? Meh. How do you feel after a good round? (Yes, children throw a wrench in this. Another topic)
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Clearly, the sex isn't that good for them. People tend not to deny themselves pleasure for no reason, especially when that pleasure is free, healthy and will improve their relationship. You'd have to be a psychopath to turn that down just to make your husband's life worse. So I think there's more at play here than just "women inherently view sex as a chore." One facet that hurts both sides is the idea that sexual monogamy is the ultimate ideal for men and women. I don't have any hard data for this, but I feel like it's a sign of honor to only be attracted to or interested in one person for 50 years, in a way that doesn't match up with the way that attractions always work. So people tend to stay in boring relationships because of cultural coding, even when the sexual element has passed for one (or both) of them. Women also aren't encouraged to develop erotic imaginations in the same way. Some of the reasons are unfortunate biological facts -- the negative risks from sex fall disproportionately on women -- but some of it is also patriarchal norms that discourage female sexual agency. On the opposite side, men are, frankly, given the wrong signals about sex as well. The sheer number of sexual myths that I see continually pop up is astounding. Men are deliberately made to feel insecure and like they're not capable of sexually satisfying a woman, because it makes them better consumers. Nobody's clicking on an email that says, "Your penis is probably just fine, go make out with her and see what happens." So we have a generation of women who aren't encouraged to figure out what they like fucking a generation of men who are told the wrong things on purpose. It's no wonder they're faking headaches. Try finding female-pleasure centric porn on the internet. I'll save you the errand: it's mostly women masturbating, there's some lesbian stuff, a smattering of bondage stuff, and a pretty sparse sprinkling of vanilla stuff where the focus -- hell not even the focus, but A focus" is actually doing things that might feel good for a woman. What happens? A small percentage of women just so happen to like what goes on in porn, but it's more by coincidence than design. Guys who watch it wonder why they can't find some chick who squirts like the ladies in his dirty movies, not realizing they're asking themselves the wrong question to begin with. tl;dr: sex is free and potentially awesome, people don't turn it down for no reason
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread I agree. Cheating isn't right. And two wrongs don't make a right. But when marriage = sex stopping because it's a chore, or whatever the friggen hell the reason is, that isn't right either. Making your partner feel like an intrusion into your life isn't okay. I'm going to agree again. Solving problems takes a lot more work than just ignoring them. That said - Guys, I'm going to offer the perspective of a former stay at home mom. Sex did become a chore for me - not because of my feelings toward my partner but because of the constant 'needing something from' me all day long. The house needed something from me, the kids were ALWAYS needing something from me, then when my spouse wanted sex, it wasn't (in my mind) about "us", it was one more thing someone needed from me. It was truly draining and exhausting. Once I articulated that to my former spouse, he and I agreed that even though I was a SAHM - I needed to get out of the house for a couple of hours a day after he got home and do something that was completely for me. That's how I got into climbing, and makeup, and blogging. It was something that I did that was completely for my own tank. Granted, there were still crazy ass underlying issues in that marriage, but doing and taking that time for myself really drove home the importance of refilling and maintaining my own 'tank'. "just making out" is a great start for guys. Just make out. Kissing and loving and petting and stroking. Just making out, without the whole and specific goal of getting laid, is a fantastic start. Question: When was the last time you guys actually kissed your mate? Not a peck on the cheek or a token on the lips with a little bit of tongue kiss, but a full on, let me show you how much I love you with my mouth, KISS? edit: That last part sounds gross, sorry. But I don't know how to verbalize it otherwise. I'm sure there's a more eloquent way to phrase that.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread That you would feel the need to say this implies that regular affection is not the normal thing, which seems weird and alien to me. Wanting to have sex but not wanting to offer any affection doesn't make any sense to me, but it sounds like this was occurring? That's pretty fucked up.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread There are lots of guys I know personally who, when I make that very statement, are confused. They say they don't understand the point of just making out, if you're not going to get laid. Seriously, for the married men, how much real emotional AND physical affection do you show your wives OUTSIDE of sex? I'm not talking about the token kiss on the cheek (though I know many marriages that lack even that level of connection). I'm talking about couples who go out of their way to show real affection (or go out of their way to express the love languages - which I firmly believe help any relationship - with or without Jesus). Hand holding, cuddling, sitting on the couch together. Engaging. Reading books or eating together. How many of you guys REALLY and TRULY go out of your way to touch your wife for no reason, just to be near her, not because you want to get laid. I'm not trying to pick on the guys here, so I'll extend that to how many of you, in relationships, really go out of your way to nurture the affection and connection within the relationship with genuine and sincere interest rather than going about it by rote? Those kisses on the nose, playful slaps on the ass, holding hands going into the movies, putting the hand on the thigh while sitting on the couch, kisses on the forehead, things like that? They mean something.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Absolutely. I am in no way implying that depriving your significant other of affection (unless it's agreed upon) is right - just that it is equally, if not more wrong to go out and betray their trust or confidence like that. If you know they're doing it out of malicious intent, you either need to be seeking therapy/working on it (in which case cheating is damaging to that process), or you should be leaving them. It's certainly just as likely that they're not being malicious, though, and that there is some kind of underlying problem either with them or the relationship.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Fun game to play: Decide that you and your partner are "just going to make out tonight." That's it. You're going to put the same effort and thought into it as you used to before you found all the other fun stuff. You're going to reignite that tension you had back when kissing was everything, and you really cared how it went. Bring back all those old moves: Biting. Teasing and pulling back, grabbing the back of his neck or softly running your tongue over her lips. Kiss with the desperation of a couple who knows there's nothing else. Spoiler alert: you're both going to lose the game.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Or win. Depending on perspective. Have any of you guys read The Five Love Languages, if so, what did you think?
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Theres 2 sides to that affection coin. (not directed towards shimmered, just a general statement) How about you stop talking to me like im one of the kids? Dont bark instructions at me in or out of the bedroom. Im am adult and your equal partner, so lets both act like it. Give me a chance to fuck it up before you just assume I forgot or did it wrong. If you dont wanna wait for the commercial for the trash to go out, do it yourself. Dont stand over me and scold me about all the shit I do wrong on a daily basis. And appreciate the shit I DO do, or at least acknowledge the effort. Most guys are so easily amused its ridiculous. How many times have guys tried to show real affection only to be hit with "Ugh...not now" or "I guess this means you wanna get laid, huh?". Mood.killuh. Sometimes those playful touches and glances dont mean anything. Or at least theyre not just means to an end. And that street goes both ways too. How many times have you just out of the blue attacked your man. If you drop to your knees and start taking off his pants while hes emptying the dishwasher, thats gonna be the emptiest dishwasher in the neighborhood! And yes, guys can not be in the mood too. It happens. And accusing them of cheating or being gay REALLY doesnt inspire us for the next time either. I was gonna jerk off in the shower anyways, so its your loss. Being on the same page is the most important thing. Mentally AND physically. Otherwise, the whole marriage/relationship just becomes a chore.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread 2 important elements to that game: 1 - Spontaneity. Try it as youre just about to get out of the car in the parking lot of the mall or the grocery store. Park way in the back and when she asks why you parked so far away, show her why you parked so far away. And dont take no for an answer. (so to speak) 2 - Quit while youre ahead. Just as shes getting into it and becoming a little foggy/lightheaded...just walk away. Always leave them wanting more. The ROI will be worth it.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread My wife and I do this on a near constant basis. It's normal. Though, interestingly, we live in a society that likes to condemn public displays of affection and, really, affection in general. So I can see it being hard for any member of a couple to be more affectionate sometimes. Which is sad.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread For sure. I've often told female friends that the secret to happiness in a marriage is spontaneous blow jobs. A blowy a week and all the things a wife bitches about a husband not doing? He'll do them and think it's his idea! (Or at least do them and not be remotely pissed about it.) It's about investment - sexual, physical, emotional investment. It isn't about the house. It isn't about the kids. It isn't about the job. It's about the marriage and doing the things necessary to make sure that both partners feel like partners instead of roommates. It's about moving forward together, and working things out when there's disagreement, and focusing on the future and betterment of the marriage. But sex, and either partner's need for sex, can't be ignored.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread There was an update to the Kinsey studies, as there have been quite a few updates/expandings in the last few years. Too lazy to find it, but its out there. The numbers shifted, and there was an inverse (using the numbers above for example) "among women who spent less than 21 minutes on foreplay 80% failed to achieve orgasm." I'll find it eventually, but this asshole just gave me work to do at work. This fucking guy. This is so weird because I have talk my girlfriend into foreplay, because I see her every 5 weeks on average, and foreplay isn't something you want to do after waiting that long for sex...but she definitely needs it to enjoy sex all the way. It's also easier on her body so we're not one and done for the weekend because she went into hyper cowgirl mode trying to get off when she wasn't ready to.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Or you could just go dogging in the park at 1 a.m. But, yeah, I was going to post something similar. Have you folks tried seducing your spouses? Sounds kind of insulting (after all the work already put into getting to that comfortable popint in the relationship), but really who doesn't want to feel worshiped? At least metaphorically. When I had sex issues with an ex, when I wanted sex a lot more than she, the times I was truly successful were when I treated her as though we were still courting. Same when it came to the actual sex. I fucked her like I meant it. I made her feel like I could not get enough of her; which I couldn't and it showed. Goes both ways between men and women. On the subject of cheating. I'm ambivalent to it when it is none of my business. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do, but in some circumstances I understand *why* someone felt the need to go outside the relationship to get their needs fulfilled. Just because you love someone doesn't mean you're sexually compatible. Because you have cheated does not mean you did not exhaust all other avenues to fixing a relationship short of ending it. I can empathize. Shit's frustrating, maddening.
I guess 5+ pages in the drunk thread means this topic has legs. I'm going to try and transfer all the related posts into this thread.* Focus: Talk about the importance/frequency of sex in long-term relationships. Do men want too much? Are women manipulative? Basically the same topic that's been going on for the last two days. *I always fuck this up on the first try.
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread Cheating is always so full of context, always with two sides ofvthe story. The best thing to do is just treat it like politics and not debate it. Sure, they call it "cheating" for a reason, but there are occasions when those cheaters had a very good reason for doing it .
Re: 11/22 Drunk Thread I have no idea why this suddenly re-named itself the same name as the drunk thread. Anyone who knows how to re-name a topic, please PM me.