I had a response, but I hit preview to make sure links were working correctly, and then I saw MC's response. His was better than mine. I'm just going to point to #2. And if you think "it's because black people commit crimes and they don't like getting in trouble" is the right answer, you should go back and re-read the thread.
The reason that they write those songs is because they deal with a side of policing that you or I are not familiar with: systematic racism. How much respect would you have for the police if they're constantly pulling up to you while you're doing something as simple as walking down the street and barking the "Okay , you know the drill" routine where they violate your rights at will? Let's look at the drug cocaine. White people in America-- as a whole and per capita-- both consume AND sell cocaine FAR more than black and hispanics. So tell me: why are you FIVE TIMES less likely to be convicted for its possession simply for being Caucasian? Are you aware that being black and simply getting pulled over is a possible death sentence in America? Not rolling down your window right away can get you shot. Reaching for your license when ORDERED to reach for license can get you shot. Having a visible mental health issue can get you beaten to death with nightsticks as you scream and beg for your life while the cops who commit these disgusting atrocities every day are punished with paid vacation and high-fives from their co-workers. This shit happens, and it happens FAR more than it should.
We obviously have problems, but comparing our situation to the middle east is a bit of a stretch, especially if you're talking about Syria. When your country has a government killing it's own civilians with chemical weapons, a rebel group executing people for having a beer and any journalist they get their hands on, trying to impose 7th century women's rights, stoning women to death - when you have all that going on saying 'hey, you're not perfect either' is a pretty shitty defense.
As I said, I think it is a circular cause and effect that has been perpetuated over the years, going back to the days when there was no voice for an abused citizen. One group is abused and takes it out on their assumed abusers (on both sides). Listening to the lyrics of Fuck the Police, they are every bit as true today as they were 30 years ago. My point was that the hatred and racism works in both directions. What If you are a person who has no racist intentions and joins a police department to be a help to the community and every day is told that s/he is a "White Cracker mother fucker" and "is just picking on the poor innocent minority who did nothing wrong" (while they are pulled over for speeding and sit at the stop with no state required license, insurance, or tags), while you're just trying to do your job. Are you going to look at that group the same when you see them, or are you going think, "shit, I know what I'm going to get as soon as I get to the window." every time you pull over a minority. Are we at a point where for the police to win back the minority community they need to turn a blind eye to any crime that is committed? "I'm sorry sir, I clocked you at 65 in a 30, but didn't realize you were a minority until I just stepped to your window. Carry on." Is there a fear of the police? Sure. I'm white and have a minor fear of the police, but I don't do shit that increases my chances of interacting with them. There should be a fear of any authority that has a potential to overstep their bounds, but doesn't the community bear the responsibility to suck it up and admit that you were caught doing something wrong and need to pay the piper? The first thought should be "oh, I was going 30 mph over the speed limit", not that you were only pulled over because you were black.
I still didn't get an answer on how many police officers Parker speaks with? You can bitch that there is racism and site every study you want, but without talking to the other side and getting their view and trying to change their attitudes aren't you ignoring a large part of the problem?
That sucks, yes. I don't have the solution for how the police repair their relationship with the policed; that's a million dollar question if there ever was one. But it's preposterous to think that black people as a group are going to say "well, yeah, you are abusing us... but I suppose we did rob a convenience store or two." But as others said, the police are rightly held to a higher standard. None of that remotely excuses continued violence perpetrated by the police. A primary step, if not step one, of repairing these relations has to be "stop committing police brutality, and punish those who do." The second part is a huge part of it. There will, in all likelihood, be police brutality forever, in some magnitude, because people are shitty and you can't completely screen for them. But you can choose what you do afterwards. The department's reaction is within their control.
Its actually a rather valid defense. Human rights violations are human rights violations. Now don't get me wrong, I would rather deal with life in America than I in the middle east. However, if your nation has perpetuated systematic violence, and oppression against various peoples in it's own population without pause since before it's actual inception then the moral high ground gets a little shakey. Especially in relationship to the middle east as the U.S. is part of a fairly consistent effort to power fuck that region of the world on a regular basis.
Here is basically what I was going to type before MC posted. "I know a guy who I was friends with before he became a police officer. Didn't talk to him for a bit, then realized "Oh shit, this guy is now a police officer" and reconnected. Now I was friends with him and his brother and always kept in touch with his brother. Have we sat down and talked about race? No. Is this or anything I written before this relevant in the least? No. Last time I'm typing this. Go back and read the rest of the thread to see where I said this 3 times before, or maybe in PMs, whatever not sure anymore. The police are a small part of the problem, as they are the symptom of the larger problem. The problem is white people doing things that kill (or a million other bad things) to black people when they didn't need to kill them (or a million other bad things). Now if there were as many stories of black LEO's having similar situations with unarmed black civilians, we'd have a conversation. Somehow black LEO's are handling black unarmed civilians without them dying or being accused of police brutality. Except there aren't any. The problem is white LEO having a dead black person, in which by all counts shouldn't be dead and the justice system just saying "Nah, we're going to let this one go. Grand Jury doesn't even think it should go to trial. No harm no foul." Except a black person is dead. The symptom is white LEO's killing the black person, the problem is the ingrained thinking that facilitates it happening. Now I used facilitate specifically, for its core definition. The racial problem makes it easier. Thought exercise, let's take the thing everyone wants to do and think that its just a police problem and not a systematic problem. "Police are trained to protect themselves, analyze threats, and react accordingly. They have a split second to react and it is the difference between life and death." Cool, I get that. We don't want people who are stepping up to protect/serve getting killed by criminals. Then it always goes like "Then that criminal, shouldn't have been doing anything but listening to the officer, because anything else is seen as a threat and the officer has to react to the threat." Cool, I get that. Now let's get to where the shit gets real. What if there was a study that said "White police officers determine black criminals to be higher threats?" Now we have an issue. Now referencing my post from before, if officers are going off memory and experience to assess threats, but are remembering the knife in the black guys hand, even though it was in the white guys hand...they're going to act accordingly. Equaling a lot of dead black dudes. NOW combine that with the story I posted earlier (and many stories) of black men being wrongfully accused because white officers are put under pressure to solve murders, get the homicide rate down, etc and you have a party going on. I'm more concerned with the programming that leads to people remembering the knife in the black dudes hand when it wasn't. White officers who may not be aware of this, who may not be racist or do racist shit, could remember the knife being in the wrong hand. Except when they do, in the heat of the moment, people can die. And there is an alarming amount of irrefutable evidence that says in the heat of the moment, it is more likely that an officer will perceive a black person as a threat and act more aggressively. That's not a police issue, its a symptom of a society issue. So it does not matter if I'm friends with a police officer or 10. Old school or new school. The symptom is just a really debilitating as the symptom can wrongfully kill people and there isn't any recourse. Does this answer your question? I'd hate to have you think I was trying to dodge it. I can do this all day.
The court of opinion is not the same as an actual courthouse. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply outside of an actual court. "Proven guilty" is also not the standard for grand juries, for what it is worth.
I can't tell if you guys are trolling me or not... Not basically guilty until proven innocent. Think of it like betting. If you had to bet every single time one of these cases came up, and the answer was there in a sealed envelope. You'd win a shit ton more money betting on racially motivated. Saying "it's hard to tell" with 250 years of America's history right behind us is preposterous. Go to twitter, go to any political discussion involving Obama, go to any discussion involving professional athletes. Come on now... "Who was holding the knife?" How do you explain that? How is the explanation remotely fair? How far does that line of thinking affect everything else? I'm going to keep banging this home, because no one has address it yet. If you missed it, go back and read. You shouldn't be posting in this thread if you're skimming. Now there was that story about that black actress who was stopped outside of the CBS studios. She said she was making out with her husband, who was white in her car, and the police, white dude, said she was fucking him with the car door open. Well the witnesses said that and he answered. She started crying and pulled the race card. Did that story turn into a big controversy? No because people (even black ones) looked at it and said "That shit wasn't racially based, you were fucking in public with the car door open." Open and shut case. There are plenty of stories where people are fucking up and get fucked up. That's not the issue.
Are you advocating that after a Grand Jury review of applicable law and a review of statements and facts, that just because there was a dead black man that the officer should be prosecuted to appease the community and make it appear that change is happening?
The interesting part is that a big deal WAS made because she pulled the race card and everybody (media) believed her and became morally outraged. Hardly anybody reported, after the fact, that it wasn't a racial issue after all. That's part of the problem... these kinds of things should be called out and people should be told "fuck you, you were wrong... don't do that". It's almost the same thing as pulling the "rape" card. It would be rather refreshing for the black community to speak up and call bullshit, loudly, with the same volume that "racist" is called.
I think that when there's video of a man being restrained using an illegal hold and a death occurs, all on video, you'd have to be pretty naive to simply say "Oh I'm sure that the grand jury didn't choose to indict because, you know, reasons." The statistics are pretty damning.
What? No. I'm making a strictly factual statement about what the legal standard applied by a grand jury is. One doesn't "prove someone guilty" in front of a grand jury. One merely establishes that there is probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. The video itself, combined with a competent and diligent prosecution, should have been sufficient to return such an indictment with respect to Eric Garner.
You mean like, when they did exactly that and demanded she apologise to the LAPD? http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/09/ ... y-to-lapd/
Way, way more news outlets and channels covered the "racist!" news than the "never mind". That's my point. That, and it does nothing to help the cause when she immediately and wrongfully pulls the race card... it undermines the whole situation.