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Say it ain't so, Joe

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rush-O-Matic, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Politik

    Politik
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    I was friends with Lizzy. She is the sweetest, most caring young woman you could possibly imagine. Rereading that article is making me tear up.
     
  2. dewercs

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  3. uzisuicide

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    This was a point made during Michael Jackson's whole scandal, too. Even if there was no foul play, it's pretty fucking creepy.

    Then again, when has this happened and no foul play was involved? I can't think of a single instance.
     
  4. Kubla Kahn

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    Debatable, MJ's cases both reeked of parents looking for a paycheck, the first kid got a huge pay day but has said since his parents put him up to it. The second, not guilty, ya feel me?
     
  5. uzisuicide

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    In Re: Gender

    I'd also like to say that my high school's ex-Vice Principal was charged with sexual assault of a 17 year old female student yesterday, and it's been ALL OVER THE PLACE around here since then. He left my old high school for another school in the state only a few years ago, so his name is still relevant around here. He's stated that he's a sex addict, and the authorities are now searching for other victims.
     
  6. Dcc001

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    Some more thoughts I have, after reading even more media accounts and, obviously, this thread:

    1. Innocent until proven guilty, guys. Remember? Hell, even in the Casey I-Killed-My-Daughter case, there was a small amount of people defending the justice system and claiming that we didn't get to hear all the evidence and that the jury probably had reasonable doubt. The Penn State case is a horrible, disgusting charge and it affects directly the lives of dozens and dozens of people. What makes me nervous about this is the same thing that makes me nervous when a woman pleads sexual harassment at work; all that's required is the accusation, and someone's life is ruined. Before we start yelling for capital punishment, let's allow a trial to occur to sort out who is actually guilty of what.

    2. Suapyg brought up a really, really interesting point: the homosexual nature of this scandal seems to be the gunpowder in this case. On this message board and on InStrength - indeed, everywhere that I'm reading reactions to the accusations - the response from the men is absolutely vitriolic. They want everyone associated with this case flayed alive on the steps of the public courthouse, the Penn State football program shut down, etc. Would the reaction be so knee-jerk if it was young girls? No, no I really don't think it would. The crime is equally heinous and unforgivable either way, but the level of hysteria associated with the gender of these victims is interesting to note.

    3. In his father's statement (read by Scott Paterno), he brought up what I thought was a valid point. A young grad student coach, who had grown up around the Paternos and viewed JoePa as God, witnesses the most fucked up shit imaginable then has to tell Joe about it. Joe is at the time 78. How the fuck do you have that conversation? And, as some other posters have mentioned, what if the accused denies it and the victim is too ashamed/scared to confirm?

    What should have happened was that McQuery should have called 911 from his cell phone right in the locker room. I'd like to think that's what I would have done. Caught the bastard red-handed and dealt directly with the police; then you don't have to worry about who do you tell or will you get fired, and justice has a better chance of being served.
     
  7. Kampf Trinker

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    Oh yeah, I'm sure 1/4 girls are abused by that age. Just like 1/9 college males have committed rape. And some didn't even know they had raped! Look, if Sandusky was getting fellated by young girls, or Michael Jackson was having sex with a little girl those stories would have been just as huge. Women/girls being abused doesn't get attention? What world are you living in? Pay attention sometime because it's all over the place. Go to a college campus, flip on the news, surf the net, it's all there.
     
  8. Aetius

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    The principal's son at my middle school, who came back as a special ed teacher, was caught "soliciting a minor," and pretty much everyone in the younger generation replied with "yeah, that seems to fit." We had all either known him directly, or as a friend of an older sibling, or as an assistant soccer coach in town, and not a one of us doubted he was pervin' on some middle school girls. The older folks did the typical Victorian "Oh my word, such scandal in our perfect little town!" He's in prison now.
     
  9. Dcc001

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    It might be going too far, but it would be interesting to have a poll with this thread: what is your gender (M/F), and have you been sexually assaulted at any point in your life (Y/N)?

    I bet the results would surprise people.
     
  10. Dcc001

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    I can't start a poll. Only mods can.
     
  11. Kubla Kahn

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    One of my brother's frat brothers got busted for fucking the middle school girls on the soccer team he coached. An old manager of mine at a restaurant I worked at was busted and fired from a local all girls school he taught english at because he was caught fucking a 14 year old. Pled down to lesser counts of sexual battery to avoid jail (he would have been killed 35 seconds in, dude ran marathons and was maybe 110 lbs). Like Dave Chappelle said, whats 15 really?


    My question has always been, the fuck makes these people fetishize young boys? Particularly Catholic priest. With such a widespread common denominator I always wondered what metrics where at play that focused their attention on young boys? So not being able to get married=fuck prepubesant boys? The fuck?
     
  12. dewercs

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    Point 1 regarding innocent until proven guilty
    Did you read the grand jury report? If a nother person witnesses you buttfucking a 10 year old boy in the shower you are guilty.
    Point 2 regarding homosexual stuff
    You fail to see the point, this was a massive cover up of a man who started a foundation to help at risk boys, he recruited at risk boys to have suck his dick and boys that he could fuck in the ass, this is not about homosexual behavior, this is sexual predator stuff.
     
  13. Beefy Phil

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    Paterno and the rest of those complicit bastards are deserving of the same blame that Warren Jeffs' followers did or should have faced following his exposure. Whether or not gender does matter, it shouldn't. Child rape is child rape. If the rape of a little girl matters less to you than the rape of a little boy, your soul is garbage.

    What you do see across the board, and what is empirically obvious, is a pervasive support system for institutional figureheads who have revealed heinous moral shortcomings. These figures build communities that require followers to shape their identities around the institution (WE ARE. PENN STATE.) so that any instance of failure becomes more than an attack against the cult or the school. It is an attack against each person who has ever drunk the Kool-Aid.

    If JoePa is Penn State, and 30,000 students a year are also Penn State, and JoePa lets kids get raped, then a simpleton's logic dictates that 30,000 students a year have allowed children to be raped, and WE CAN'T LET THEM TALK ABOUT ME THAT WAY, SO FLIP THAT FUCKING VAN OVER AND GIVE MY COACH HIS JOB BACK.

    They know what he did. They know it was wrong. They are ashamed of a man who has tarnished the mutual identity they all willingly chose to adopt, but they refuse to feel guilty for his actions.

    There's a word for that.
     
  14. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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    I think the high-profile nature of the examples you mentioned has more to do it with the gender of the victims. In each example you gave, you're dealing with either a massively famous individual (Jackson), a massively influential institution (Catholic Church), or some combination of the two (PSU/Sandusky). In the PSU case there's also the factor of the coverup being aided by someone who had quite possibly been the most universally respected and admired figure in American sports prior to this. And in the Catholic Church case there's the enormous betrayal of trust caused by priests who were supposed to be men of God and mentors to the children they abused. When the creepy guy down the street who wears a trenchcoat and drives a windowless van is arrested for abusing young children of either gender, the outrage might be pretty much muted because he isn't famous and no one is really surprised.

    Have there been any high-profile cases of adult men molesting prepubescent girls? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Roman Polanski, and he naturally gets a pass from the media because he's a left-wing filmmaker.

    To use a more even example, does anyone really get more outraged at the "To Catch a Predator" episodes featuring men targeting young boys than the shows where they target young girls?? I don't think there's really much difference there.
     
  15. The Village Idiot

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    First of all, just an FYI, most abusers/molesters are not homosexual. Child abuse isn't heterosexual, or homosexual in nature. The biggest reason I saw for molestation? Especially of young boys? The molester was abused themselves. No, I'm not defending them, nor pitying them. When I worked in the criminal justice system, that's what I saw.

    And Dcc, Paterno admitted under oath he didn't contact the police. He had an obligation to do so. As to the others, we'll see what happens.
     
  16. Dcc001

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    And here I thought you were clueless about how the board works.
     
  17. Rush-O-Matic

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    I am only speaking for me. And, let me state for the record that I am a straight white male. My reaction would absolutely be just as vitriolic if Sandusky had done this to girls. My outrage for this incident more than others has to do with the fact that these were children. 10 year olds. Girls or boys, at 10, I would be just as outraged.

    In addition, my anger about this is compounded that this went on for years and years. Also, nothing to do with the sex of the victims. And, the cover ups, the denials, the continued access, the refusals to investigate. Also, not gender related. Children were abused. That is what pisses me off. Everyone that want to add homophobia to this discussion can leave me out of that.
     
  18. Kubla Kahn

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    I am really wondering if DCC and SUAPYG are asserting that these cases are higher profile because they think society is inherently homophobic and it is our homophobia that makes us that much more outraged at these incidents?
     
  19. downndirty

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    One thought I had on the gender debate: both Elvis Pressley and Charlie Chaplin married 14 year old girls. R. Kelly proposed to Aaliyah when she was a teenager. Realistically, the taboo on teenage girls is a very recent thing. Abuse of any young child is deplorable, but maybe people get more upset about boys than girls because, a few generations ago, 12 years old was marryin' age.

    Aside from that thought, this whole situation is sick and likely to get a lot worse. You don't catch someone raping a 10 year old and call anyone but the police or "a couple of hard, pipe-hittin niggas to go to work on the homes, here". (Pulp Fiction). I don't give a shit if it's your childhood friend's dad, your priest or Goddamned Barack Obama.

    Penn State football should cease to exist. Who wants to play for the program built by people too afraid to confront a child molester? How does the NCAA mention the integrity and character of it's student athletes and allow people who turned a blind eye to child abuse for decades to continue to coach and teach?
     
  20. dewercs

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    Warren Jeffs