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Say it ain't so, Joe

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rush-O-Matic, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Rush-O-Matic

    Rush-O-Matic
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    Now that TiB and Penn State are using the same motto, shouldn't we have a thread about the scandal?

    Focus: I'm thinking that it's never okay for an adult authority figure to sodomize a fifteen year old boy in the shower. What do you think?
     
  2. DrFrylock

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    I think I have no idea what this scandal is. All I know is that I saw a bunch of angry Penn state students on the news. I assumed they were just drunk.
     
  3. hotwheelz

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    I thought they were just angry about living in Philadelphia?
     
  4. Frank

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    Ha ha ha, I wish Poo was here to blow up about you being completely unaware of what (I think) is the worst thing to happen in sports, ever. I know a good chunk about it and I don't follow sports.

    All I can say is that I hope I don't live to see the next worst thing ever, because this one raised the bar and I don't know if I can handle hearing about something worse.
     
  5. Flagrant

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    This status has been all over my newsfeed on Facebook. "So...............if an older woman who likes younger boys is a cougar, then an older man who likes little boys is a Nittany Lion????"

    Also, apparently JoePa just got canned

    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-pennstate-abuse

     
  6. StayFrosty

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    One of my coworkers offered the theory that this happens across many campuses all the time, and the only thing setting PSU apart from the rest is that they got caught. I don't know how much I believe that, and I know I don't WANT to believe it, but universities do have a sort of "look after your own" mentality. Sort of like the first publicized cases of priest rape, this could be just the tip of the iceberg, and that's a scary thought.
     
  7. lostalldoubt86

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    I feel like I have to follow this story because I am 1. a Penn State Alum, and 2. A future teacher. So I'll tell you what I know. Jerry Sandusky, assistant football coach, started a program for underprivileged kids. He has been sexually abusing boys from that program for over a decade. So far, 8 boys have come forward with claims of being abused.
    At one point, a graduate student aid saw Sandusky abusing these boys in the locker room shower, and told Paterno what he saw. Paterno told his superiors, who looked into the issue, but it didn't come to anything. At no point in these allegations did someone call the police, which should have been done.
    So now, Paterno is being blamed for not calling the police, as is the president. It has started this huge debate over the right thing to do (call the police) and protocol (telling a superior and having someone else deal with the issue.)

    In my opinion, I think the grad student aid should have been the one to call the police, because he is the one who witnessed the abuse. But I think no one wanted to lose their jobs by calling the police.
     
  8. Dcc001

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    My thoughts on this so far:

    1. I'm confused why they didn't just oust Sandusky waaay back when. Late 90s, early 00s when they found out. Yes, it would have been a scandal but it really wouldn't have tarnished the organization. "Hey, this guy went rogue, he's a brutal criminal, here he is turned over to the authorities and Penn State doesn't tolerate that crap." What genius decided it would be better for everyone to cover it up? Why did they think Sandusky was so valuable he deserved that kind of complicity?

    2. It's a crying shame Paterno will have to retire and have this tacked onto his legacy. Possibly the best team ever, lead by the best coach ever, and THIS is what they will think of when they think of Pa Joe.

    3. I do not agree with the hysteria. The whole, "Penn State should shut down their sports program!!!" No, they should not. All the people thinking this and demanding this should ask themselves these questions: Do you feel the same way about the Catholic church? Do you post rabidly on blogs and message boards that the church should be banished? Do you actively try to close down the Catholic schools in your area? If the answers are 'no,' then STFU. What the Church has done over the years is exactly the same thing, but on a MUCH larger scale. This sucks for the organization, big time, but it shouldn't result in it being closed down.

    *Not saying I wouldn't like to see the Catholic church go, but realistically it won't and this isn't the board for that discussion.
     
  9. gtg2k

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    To me, THIS is the worst scandal to hit college football. This makes any NCAA infraction look like a silly little rule. This isn't a violation of a written set of rules. This is a violation of any and every moral code. The only scandal that compares to this is the rape scandal at Colorado a few years back; quite frankly, the depth of what happened and the coverup within is even worse.

    What is really sickening is that there are people out there defending Joe Paterno. "Oh, he didn't know the scope of what happened. He's just a harmless old man, not connected. Let him leave with dignity, blah, blah, blah".

    Read this.

    http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

    Several things.

    1) This is some sick, SICK, stuff.

    2) Joe Paterno knew Jerry Sandusky was a possible pederast as far back as 1998/99, and the only thing he did to him was tell him "You won't be my successor." Then Sandusky got a pretty sweet retirement package.

    3) An investigation began to take place in 1998/99, and it was shut down after he promised not to shower any more with kids. WTF?!?

    4) When it was announced that Paterno had been fired, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of people took to the streets to protest this. Are you fucking kidding me? Everyone that protested this should be branded with "STUPID" on their foreheads, because they will look foolish for supporting this shit.

    If it seems like I'm so mad, I'm shaking, I truly am. Bottom line: there is no gray here, no ambiguity about what's right or wrong. All of this that happened, is a man-made hell. And those that screwed up here will, and should, have to look at themselves everyday and say "I am a failure as a human being. I failed my fellow man."


    What really sucks is that everyone is chest thumping about JoePa's legacy, or the coverup, or how no one did anything. "But what about giving JoePa some dignity?" FUCK HIS DIGNITY! When he ignored this, and hoped it would go away, he forfeited any dignity.

    Fewer people seem to give a shit about the victims, about what they need, or their dignity.

    What needs to be happening now is that we need to ask "What can we do to help the victims?" Not point fingers, not place blame. Help those that were hurt by this sick monster, and say "What needs to be done so this doesn't happen again, ANYWHERE?" THAT should be the focus of all of this.

    Let me also say, that this is ruining the lives of hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people. Those coaches that knew nothing about what happened, the support staff, and worst of all, the players.

    See, when the dust settles, EVERYONE involved with Penn State football will, in a most likely scenario, get shitcanned. The players that don't play at the next level (and even those that do) will be stained by what happened here. The program will go into the toilet for a long, LONG time, and those that make money off Penn State football (concessions people, security staff, restaurant owners) will suffer in many ways, including financially. People that are Penn State alumni will be painted with that brush. It's unfair for them, and a lot of people (hopefully) won't hold this against these folks. Unfortunately and unfairly, the innocent will be tainted by said brush.

    "Should Penn State get the death penalty?"

    No. I think there will be sanctions of a sort, but honestly, it will suffer enough without shutting down the program. In a way, it will receive a sort of unofficial death penalty by virtue of how many recruits they will lose for years and years to come. This will be a specter over the program when I have kids, and maybe even grandkids.
     
  10. Rush-O-Matic

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    Correction: When I posted this as a suggestion, the first article I read wasn't clear on what that stupid, gutless McQueary had witnessed. The article mentioned a different victim, now 24, about an incident 9 years ago. I assumed it was the same child, and that's why I said 15. Since then, I've seen the charges about the incident, where McQueary states the boy appeared to be about 10 years old.

    I've been so angry and disgusted about what was done to these children, that it's difficult for me to think cleary. But, for the life of me, I cannot understand how you can come into a building you assumed was empty, see lights on, hear showers and sexual noises, stumble upon an older grown man sodomizing a 10 year old boy in the shower, and not:
    - immediately try to stop it
    - see if the boy is safe
    - report it to the police

    I don't understand why McQueary is still coaching at Penn State.

    If you didn't already see it, most of the current articles don't go into the details about the charges. I can't seem to find one that discusses all that, as now they are all about Paterno getting fired. Here's one about another victim.

    And here is the grand jury info on the former assistant coach, who still had an office on campus as recently as last week.
     
  11. Binary

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    And THIS is a big part of why this is all so disgusting. Nobody wanted to lose their jobs and so the sexual abuse of young boys was perpetuated and covered up. Fuck everyone who thought, "gosh, I could lose my job if I report this." Every single one of them is complicit in the abuse of these kids.

    It's a crying shame? Excuse me? Are you implying that anyone should have the single tiniest shred of pity for this turd fondler who helped cover up someone molesting kids? I hope that everyone thinks of this when they think of him. I hope his entire football legacy vanishes into obscurity and that "JoePa" one day gets entered into the thesaurus as a synonym for "douchebag."
     
  12. Flat_Rate

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    Mike McQueerbag should be fucking ashamed to be a man. You WITNESS A MAN RAPING A TEN YEAR OLD BOY IN A SHOWER ROOM, then what does this asshole do? Calls his fucking daddy? Unbelievable.

    He should have kicked the shit out of Sandusky, then kicked the shit out of him again, and then called the cops. Then tell Joe. You don't run away like a bitch and call daddy.
     
  13. E. Tuffmen

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    I think the Milgram study can shed some light on why this was covered up. This happened because most people are weak, afraid, self-serving, and always bow to authority.

    How anyone could see a 10-year-old being raped and do nothing is completely beyond my powers of comprehension. Fuck Joe Paterno. And fuck that candy ass who witnessed this and didn't stop it right then and there, beat the living shit out of that slimy bastard, and then call the cops. I HOPE all Paterno is remembered for is this. Any good he ever did in life is completely erased because he is equally as culpable as Sandusky. And they should tear down that stupid statue.
     
  14. Juice

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    The only line you need from the Attorney General deposition:

    "A rhythmic, slapping sound."

    (The fuck...)
     
  15. StayFrosty

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    First, apologies because it's early, I haven't had enough coffee yet, so this post is going to be much less concise and cohesive than it should be.

    As someone said to me in PM, it's time to get a flamethrower and burn that place to the ground. The coverup here was incredibly far-reaching, and ANYONE who knew should be charged and have their lives destroyed. Paterno, his bosses (the athletic director and college VP). Sandusky's wife had to have at least suspected, and likely outright knew, and at least one family friend knew. This is evidenced by the fact that, one week before one of the victims (#7 I believe) was to testify before the grand jury, he received phone calls from Sandusky's wife and family friend of Sandusky's. Both left voicemails asking him to call Sandusky to discuss "a very important matter".

    DCC touched on this, but it would have been easy for the school to say "Hey, we've been made aware that Sandusky has sexually molested young boys. We like to stand behind our staff, but this behavior is unacceptable. He's fired, his pension is gone, and we're giving full cooperation to the authorities."

    The fact that they didn't do this has two very chilling implications: First, and this could suggest that this IS a common occurence, they thought they could cover this up. Hell, they DID cover it up successfully for a time, but the attitude that they could sweep this under the rug successfully is sickening.

    Second, the choice to cover it all up. The attitude that the reputation of the school was more important than protecting children from being sexually abused. One part of this is a mentality that assigns football (or sports in general) an importance far beyond what it should have. The other part is the belief that the appearance is more important than the reality. Nobody cared whether the program and it's staff had integrity, so long as the appearance of integrity remained intact.

    Looking at it from a purely pragmatic point of view, I would find it a wiser option to go public, remove the threat to the university's credibility, and deal with some bad publicity than to risk a much more severe degree of publicity and fallout if the scandal came to light.

    Going back to what I said above, this is where the attitude of "we can cover this up" comes into play, and moreso the near success. You don't try to cover up sexual child abuse unless you truly believe you can do so successfully. The local police supervisor (or maybe it was Uni police?) had his subordinates dismiss at least one accusation. That suggests some serious reach of the uni officials.

    Now, we have two witnesses who saw what was going on and reported it (to the wrong fucking people). I know a lot of people have the understandable attitude of "let them burn too", but I'm not completely on board with that. I see no malicious intent on the part of the student and janitor. What I do see is an attitude that people in general tend to have, and that is basically summed as "If you see something wrong, you report it to someone in some position of authority, and your responsibility in the situation is then done." It's a tendency to wash our hands of things easily, and assure ourselves we've done our part and can move on with our lives.

    In short, this shit reeks of lack of empathy, personal responsibility, and human decency and it's a frightening example of the overall mentality of people.
     
  16. MoreCowbell

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    Penn State unveiled their new logo today:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Frank

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    You really can't do that one, no matter what... not that it's important to the discussion, but just an FYI.

    Also, I wonder what Paterno's pension is going to be with his years of service and one hell of an age adjustment factor.
     
  18. Juice

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    My cousin played for Penn State in college (He's in the NFL now) and my grandfathers has pictures like these all over his house:

    [​IMG]

    This morning after the news he said, "Yeah, might be time to burn these."
     
  19. Trakiel

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    McQueary absolutely should've called the police, but things like this aren't so simple. Here's an extremely likely outcome of what would've happened had he called the cops.

    1. Cops investigate, but the only evidence is McQueary's account.
    2. Scumbag abuser denies any wrongdoing.
    3. Victim, scared, confused, and humiliated likely doesn't back McQueary's account up and stays silent for the time being.
    4. With only scumbag's word against McQueary's, police can do nothing.
    5. McQueary is fired, scumbag is free to continue abusing.

    We as a culture have all been raised to hate a tattle-tale. Doesn't matter how serious the crime is; "Snitches get stitches", right? Maybe McQueary thought that Paterno, with the enormous influence he was, was in a better position to put a stop to the abuse than some nobody grad assistant. Doesn't absolve him [McQueary], but I can definitely see why he may have made the choice he did.
     
  20. gtg2k

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    As far as the janitor goes, considering the man has been suffering from dementia for awhile, it could be possible that his accusations were just dismissed as an old man seeing things. Also, he was probably coerced into keeping quiet, since it seems he was not in a position to lose a job, and could be dismissed as an old crank.

    Mike McQueary, however, had no excuse. He's an alumni of the school; a former player (and still relatively young, so I would assume still in decent shape); and a local boy, so he had a bit more credibility than the janitor. He could have stopped this from happening any further, not only for that kid, but for others. Would he have been persona non grata in State College for awhile? Probably. However, he would have landed on his feet, and more importantly, he would have spared a lot of other children that abuse. Their blood is on his hands. He failed in a moral way.

    And for the record, I do not claim to have a great moral compass.In my opinion, there are shades of gray in a lot of what we do in life. However, there ARE some absolutes, and one of those is to not hurt the weak. More specifically, don't hurt children. We all need help, love, and care, but children more so than anyone, especially the ones that were part of this Second Mile program.

    See, that's the sickest thing about this. These were children that were already broken, and in some cases abused, and he lulls them in with a false sense of security, then hurts them even more.

    Unconscionable. Inexcusable. Absolutely horrible.

    I pray God shows mercy on the people that participated in this coverup, because mankind will show little, if any.

    And I look at all these if's "If McQueary reported this, and no one believed him...", "If they did this", "If this happened". Bottom line, we can't play the "What if?" game. This happened in the way it happened, and now, people have to reap what they sowed.