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Recent Movie Review Thread

Discussion in 'Pop Culture Board' started by atcmh, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. jdoogie

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    The things that have been spoiled here so far give away a lot of major plot points and basically the main ending of the movie... so, yeah?
     
  2. Rush-O-Matic

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    Also, a lot of the spoilers here and on the interwebs take the impact out of the highs and lows. Some of them are plot spoilers and some of them are emotion beats (Yeah! . . . Awww) Knowing those ahead will take some of the fun away. There is also a character appearance spoiler that was intentionally misled in a trailer. It's both funny and a big part of the plot.
     
  3. NatCH

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    I mean, they’re tying up story arcs that have been going on for multiple movies, so...everything is kind of a spoiler in that regard. What Rush said...I’m glad I didn’t know anything about it going in because everything hit how it was supposed to.
     
  4. Aetius

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    Avengers: Endgame

    I enjoyed the film and had a lot of fun watching it, but it is clearly a fundamentally weaker film than Infinity War, for what I believe are a couple of reasons.

    Time Travel
    Time travel in any movie that is not 100% dedicated to the concept of time travel is always a cop out. This is a golden rule of moviemaking you can take to the bank. Unless you're making Back to the Future, 12 Monkeys, Looper, or something similar that exists solely to play with the concepts of time travel, causality, and the like, you've just blown up your screenplay. It immediately introduces plot holes for all but the most exquisitely crafted plots, and it undermines any finality you attempt to introduce into your movie because anything the characters do can theoretically be undone by just going back in time and not doing it. There is a slight exception for films that put the time travel mechanism fundamentally outside the characters' control, like Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow, but it's a very narrow exception. It's not a coincidence that any popular franchise that has introduced it as a concept pretty quickly stuffs it back in the bottle, ceremoniously or unceremoniously. Harry Potter basically never mentions it again; Dr Strange uses it once in a very limited fashion and then treats it as too dangerous to use; Star Trek classifies or breaks any time travel tech as soon as the plot is over; etc. Endgame runs into the same challenges. It's fundamentally a "what if we retcon Infinity War" plot, which is a bad place to pick up from the best movie in the MCU, and despite trying to spell out rules in act I, it repeatedly violates them in acts II and III. The time travel aspect is at its most egregious when it sets up a fight between the Avengers and a version of Thanos that doesn't even know them, doesn't have the grudging respect for them that they earned by the end of Infinity War, and doesn't have the same deep characterization as the "older" version. It reduces him to a generic villain when the prior movie worked so hard to elevate him above that.

    Power Level
    Infinity War does a really good job managing the Greater-Scope Villain that's been lurking over the MCU since Thanos was first name dropped. The movie contains a not-inconsiderable amount of power creep, but it's well handled and balanced. Thanos gets progressively stronger as the movie goes on, as do the Avengers as they organize themselves into alliances and seek greater strength to bring to bear against him. The movie ends with a vastly powered-up Thor getting a second whack at a now fully-powered Thanos, and ends somewhat ambiguously on whether Thor or Thanos would win straight up. This sets up a third and final showdown between the Avengers and Thanos in Endgame to settle the question of whether the Avengers can come up with something to turn the tide this time, especially given that Thanos is now aware of how strong Thor has become.

    ...and Endgame discards it. Worse than that, they beef up the Avengers, and weaken Thanos. By the time the final battle of Endgame arrives, it shouldn't even be a contest. Thanos is weaker than we've ever seen him (he shows up in Infinity War already having taken the power stone, which is what he uses to outbox The Hulk and threaten to pop Thor's head like a melon) while literally everything about the Avengers is stronger. Thor is fully powered up and wielding Stormbreaker; Scarlet Witch is undistracted and unleashed; Captain America is wielding Mjolnir like a second Thor; Thanos has to fight them all at once instead of a few at a time; and Ant-Man, Wasp, Hawkeye, and Rescue Pepper have joined the fight while sacrificing only Black Widow (the weakest Avenger) and a completely crippled Vision who barely fought the first time. Oh, and they've also added a completely gamebreaking Captain Marvel who is "Superman can punch a Star Destroyer into the sun" levels of OP. Infinity War established that Thanos' ship, without a single infinity stone, decimated the Nova Corps and wrecked Xandar's shit, and Captain Marvel flies through it like a '46 Ford tearing through a DeLorean. This is a fight that any of Captain Marvel, Thor, Dr Strange, or Scarlet Witch can easily handle by themself, and we're supposed to feel like they might lose when working together and being supported by the literal entire MCU cast.

    The Positive
    That said there's a lot to enjoy here. Tony Stark and Steve Rogers get the sendoffs they deserved; it has a solid number of laughs; they take the time to really sit in the consequences of the snap and how emotionally devastating it was for everyone; and Thor just straight up decapitating Thanos without hesitation is the peak of his character's brutal arc since Thor 2.

    7/10
     
  5. Clutch

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    I don't know why, but it really irritated me that they made a big deal about Thanos finally finding his first infinity store in 2014 when all of the 2012 stuff happened because he gave Loki the mind stone so that he could go retrieve the space stone.

    The ham-handed girl power moment was cringey enough by itself, then they followed it up with the female characters doing pretty much nothing that actually helped Captain Marvel, who was immediately slapped out of the sky by Thanos.
     
  6. Juice

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    The movie has been out for 3 days, so I’m not spoiler tagging anything anymore. So stop reading below this line:

    ***********************
    Really well said. The more I’ve thought about the time travel aspect the less sense it makes. Hell, it kind of ruined Cap’s send off. Old Steve Rogers should have been in another timeline, right? Wasn’t that the entire premise of what they said? It doesn’t make sense that he exists at the same time as his younger self doing all the Avengers shit. Plus it violates all of the character qualities they gave him. So he just grows old, knowing Hydra is forming, Bucky is enslaved, Tony Stark’s parents are killed, etc? That’s not even unique, that’s just kind of a rip off of the finale of Quantum Leap.

    Yeah, feel the same way about Captain Marvel, which is why I didn’t really like her movie. As I said, she was the Deus Ex Machina to mop up the plot for us. She was a lame character in the comics for this reason. The DCU at least has villains that could take on Superman like Anti-Monitor, etc., otherwise there would be no reason for any other character.

    If this movie didn’t have a legit hour of just payoffs from the other 21 movies and 11 years of storytelling, it wouldn’t have been as good.
     
    #1086 Juice, Apr 28, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2019
  7. Aetius

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    You can kiiiinda explain Cap's send off if you assume the film plays by the "you can't change the past" thing it set up in act I (and is explained really well in 12 Monkeys), even if much of the rest of the film abuses that rule to hell and back. In that case Rogers would live out his life knowing that he can't change the things that are already in his past, even if they're in his current timeline's future, and so just lives as a simple man.

    As for Captain Marvel, her power is explicitly shown to come from the tesseract, which is the space stone, and yet all her abilities are all power and no space, so that never made sense to me.
     
    #1087 Aetius, Apr 28, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  8. NatCH

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    Alright, following in Juice’s footsteps. Spoilers below.

    **********
    It was a series finale. Was it perfect? No, but it had a shitload of fan service and finished the story with no intended cliffhangers. I’d go see it again and probably will.

    So regarding Steve Rogers and the Time:
    -This is just my brainstorming...if he went back in time, put the stones back, then jumped farther back to be with Peggy, that would basically mean that Peggy doesn’t marry another man which now creates an alternate timeline - UNLESS her husband is always Steve (I believe they never reveal who her husband is in any MCU movie/show?) who is living a dual life incognito, hidden from everyone except Peggy, while his younger self is frozen. Because if he can’t really change his past (which now includes everything in the movies up until he goes back to return the stones), then he just has to chill, enjoy civilian life, and wait until Tony’s funeral, and then sneak onto a park bench. That’s the only way I can reconcile it, because if he lived out a life with Peggy in an alternate timeline, then jumped back, he would have appeared on the landing pad, as per the rules of the movie.
    Of course, that’s convoluted and full of holes, and the movie breaks its own rules. But it was still entertaining.

    Also...this would mean Steve kisses his own niece, which is some interesting collateral damage.
     
    #1088 NatCH, Apr 28, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2019
  9. Binary

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    Just fucking spoiler it, guys. It takes one click and anyone else who might want to post (or look for) a non-Endgame review doesn't have to wade through it. "Stop reading below this line" doesn't work because your eyes naturally pick up words and phrases even if you don't read it deliberately.

    I don't think 72 hours is a great cutoff point for, "well, you all must have seen it or know the ending already."
     
  10. Nettdata

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    Y'all done pissed off the muppet. But I kind of agree with him. I can't see it until this weekend, so I do appreciate it... or, you know, spin up a new thread if you want to.
     
  11. Juice

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    You’re gonna love the part where Batman dies, so enjoy.

    Fine. The one click to apply the spoiler tag doesn’t always work on mobile, which is the only method I really use to go on the board and why I didn’t bother. But I figured everyone knew the twists by now since theyre all over the Internet and social media. I’ll spoiler tag until it’s been out a few weeks.
     
  12. downndirty

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    Saw it twice this weekend.
    I'm slightly disappointed they didn't introduce any new characters...not that there wasn't plenty, but a fucking X-man cameo or FF would have lit the theatre on fire.

    Captain Marvel is supposedly the Marvel answer to Superman: ridiculously over-powered, not really a fun character to develop or watch, and yeah...pretty much always used in that vein. I also think the same could be said of Dr. Strange and the magically-inclined: theoretically some magic trick could end the whole thing, so why bother? Compared to Superman, Larson's portrayal of Marvel is far better to watch than most versions of Superman, but it's an admittedly low bar (and the girl power shit in comic movies is getting a little old, especially considering the success of "Wonder Woman").

    The "girl power" fight scene at the end was ham-fisted and fucking retarded. Like, Danvers is supposedly able to go toe-to-toe with Thanos, but needs help from Black Panther's little sister's jaguar mittens? It worked well in the previous film with Black Widow and Scarlet Witch's fight in the ditch, this was just cringe-inspiring.

    Also, the Hulk-Banner singularity was a good move, I think. It resolved the issue from the previous film well, and removed the "hulk out as a plot device" complication.

    Hawkeye's arc was well-done, as he played a bigger role than I would have thought. I figured he would have been the one to be "sacrificed" for the soul stone, given the egregious gangster-murdering, and I would have shit a kitten for his daughter to be Kate Bishop (the female Hawkeye). Seriously, the recent run of Hawkeye (I think starting in 2016?) comics is one of the most fantastic takes on the character and well worth reading.

    The "sad, fat Thor talks to mom" plotline was kind of stupid. There had to have been a better way of dealing with Thor's fallout than that.

    I was surprised at the "deaths": Stark, Black Widow and Cap were the only three not making these movies any more? I was also surprised at how much screen time Cheadle had....in most of the other films, he wasn't as large of a presence? I kind of assumed a few more of those characters would be taken out, like War Machine, Thor, Wong, Hawkeye, etc.

    Also, surprised at how very little threw back to the Ultron film. The time-travel sequence focused on so many of the other Marvel movies, it felt odd that that one was almost completely ignored. Vision's non-presence was very odd to me. Why didn't he return after the snap was undone?

    Anyone else catch the weird kid with the funky hair at the Iron Man funeral scene? I'm thinking that's the kid from Iron Man 3, slightly grown up now, and likely to assume the mantle of Iron Man in some of the future films?

    It wasn't as solid as Avengers 1, but far better than 2&3, and a satisfying conclusion to this phase of the MCU.

    It was surprisingly funny, and for a movie that lasted damn near 3 hours, it was bound to drag at some points, but it was tolerable.

    I think after this movie Paul Rudd gets upgraded to "national treasure" status like Sean Astin.

    Plot holes abound, so don't go in expecting solid storytelling logic.

    Not as kid-friendly as I'd thought, the violence was not so cartoonish as it was in the earlier films. Very little relationships/sexual tension going on, which was also surprising.

    The music was...uninspired. Silvestri did a good job, but there was nothing creative about it.

    If you compare this to Thor:Ragnarok, it weirdly lacks the stunning visuals (to be fair, T:R was every 80's metal album cover turned into a movie). It went for "lived-in", so you get a little shaky cam, you get a lot of cinematic tropes (slow motion, CGI-gasms, and a lot of dramatic close-ups). For a movie with characters described as iconic, there were very few scenes I remember that would look iconic on their own.

    All in all, go fucking see it. It was a tremendous send-off, and given the range of talent assembled, I can't think of another film that's going to get close.

    I can't wait to see what they announce now that we know who the "survivors" are.
     
  13. Rush-O-Matic

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    Because didn't die in the snap? Thanos ripped his head open to take the stone? Also, there is going to be a Wanda Vision TV series, so some how that's related?

    And, yes, that's Harley Keener, played by the same actor. So, yes?
     
  14. bebop007

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    I doubt I can add much to the Avengers talk but

    The replacement Gamora reminded me of this scene in Beerfest:



    "It's like we never even lost Gamora!"

    It was a great movie overall, time travel shenanigans notwithstanding. They deserve a lot of credit for wrapping things up as solidly as they did.
     
  15. Rush-O-Matic

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    Not only wrap up, but setting up new movie's. The spoiler you referenced is likely central to GotG3 plot.
     
  16. dieformetal

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    Am I the only one who thinks it would have been HILARIOUS if the reason Jane broke up with Thor(which never gets explained in Ragnarok) was because she sees him fat and drunk and thinks “so THIS is what I have to look forward to???”
     
  17. Clutch

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    I was actually a little disappointed that we didn't get a mid-credits scene of alternate reality Thor trying to find his hammer.
     
  18. Crown Royal

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    Avengers: Endgame

    “Ohhhh! So THAT’S how to invent time travel!”

    ...push that aside, and the fact you have a three hour superhero movie with almost no action scenes until the everything-including-the-kitchen-sink climax. Instead, it’s mostly a comedy-drama as the main characters (many of them, and balanced well) fight inner demons. Surprisingly, it’s all handled with terrific deftness. It’s kept unpredictable with plenty of fun cameos and nudge-nudge moments spread out over the entire MCU film franchise. It ends strong. With plenty of laughs along the way and strange character directions you don’t see coming. It doesn’t feel three hours long and that means it’s effective.

    Fans of both Marvel comics and the MCU film franchise should be pleased. My guess is Galactus is the best bet to be the next super-duper villain for the “phase four” of the franchise.

    9/10
     
  19. Binary

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    The only people who got "fixed" were the ones who disappeared in the snap. Gamora (and, for that matter, Vision) die in Thanos' effort to obtain the stones, so there's no fixing them

    I don't think Thanos is as weak as you're suggesting.

    Thanos doesn't use the power stone with the Hulk, he literally just fought him; the stone doesn't glow, there's no indication he's using its power, he one-on-one beats the shit out of the strongest Avenger with no help. The team that almost beat him resorted to essentially trickery, not overpowering him; in fact, a pretty compelling point was made that it required an entire team of people and all of Iron Man's tech to give him a scratch on his face. Thanos is obviously aided greatly by the stones through fights, but the fact remains that there have been no compelling limits set on his physical power. Everyone who goes toe-to-toe with him gets physically overpowered - it's pretty clear (to me) that slipping past the stones defenses and engaging with Thanos directly has yet to show any inkling of success.

    Where is this shown otherwise?

    In any event, I think the "we might lose" comes from the overall situation. It's not All The Avengers vs. Thanos. It's All The Avengers vs. Thanos + Minions + ship + an entire army, with the actual stones precariously being dragged around the battlefield, where any of the enemy laying their hands on them would spell a sudden end to the conflict.

    Overall, I really enjoyed it.

    I struggled with Captain Marvel's character. This movie really requires the backstories of the other characters for them to be compelling; there isn't enough space here to make each one compelling in their own right. All of those characters have multiple movies, long released, to establish them.

    Captain Marvel has one movie, and it's still in theaters. There's no backstory here if you haven't already seen it in the theater. So this character shows up and we're supposed to feel... what, exactly? Yet she has a disproportionate impact on the outcome of the movie. I think Marvel screwed up there; you can't expect everyone who wants to watch one of the most anticipated finale movies in the last decade to have also already seen yet another spinoff character movie, which hasn't even gotten out of the theaters yet. If she had been a character in a previous Avengers movie, okay. But here? Meh.

    But that quibble aside, and some question marks around the power of certain characters or items, I thought it was great. Genuinely funny, good character arcs, and some surprises. The initial scene(s) of the movie were, for me, wholly unexpected.
     
  20. Clutch

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    I think that an adaptation of the Secret Wars storyline would work as a way to let them build up the next wave of characters and then bring them together, especially the ones they just got back from FOX, but judging from Captain Marvel, it looks like they're planning to go down the Kree/Skrull path, which is a shame because I never really cared for those storylines.