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put stuff into my asshole please

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nom Chompsky, Jun 6, 2013.

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Were You Part Of Greek Culture?

  1. I am a man and was not in a fraternity

    83 vote(s)
    63.4%
  2. I am a man who was in a fraternity

    23 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. I am a woman who was not in a sorority

    18 vote(s)
    13.7%
  4. I am a woman who was in a sorority

    3 vote(s)
    2.3%
  5. I am upset at the gender binary suggested by the above options

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  6. put stuff in my asshole

    3 vote(s)
    2.3%
  1. Binary

    Binary
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    I think the hazing of almost any kind is absolutely ridiculous. Aside from the fact that it runs the gamut from humiliating to cause for criminal prosecution, there is no justifiable reason on earth for it. It's not "proving" anything - it's just a perpetuation of older members feeling like they have the right to put the new members through what they experienced, and the fact that people try to justify it as "proving loyalty" or whatever is absolutely laughable and is nothing more than Stockholm syndrome.

    I just find so much of the Greek life to be strange. I don't need help structuring my social life. Frat parties aren't the only crazy parties on campus. I don't need to belong to a group in order for someone to be my friend. College is nothing but a bunch of horny 18-22 year olds with no responsibilities, so I hardly think you need a fraternity to get laid. I just don't really see the benefit.

    Random observation: I've seen so much "groupthink" coming out of fraternity houses that I have to think it's endemic to the system. It's almost as if the entire house sits around, comes to a conclusion on some social or political issue, and that's it - that's what everyone thinks. It's almost bizarre.
     
  2. D26

    D26
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    I agree that labeling "paying dues" as buying friends is dumb. A lot of organizations have dues, not just frats. It's pretty normal.

    I would, however, argue that any hazing to get into a frat is tantamount to saying "unless you do this humiliating, degrading, and (admittedly only sometimes) dangerous stuff, we can't be friends, and you can't join my super-exclusive awesome club!" That, to me, is bullshit of the highest order, and why I didn't personally want to join a frat. If I have to humiliate myself for the privilege of hanging out with you or to be called your "brother," then you're not the kind of person I'd want to hang out with anyway. I have friends from high school I consider brothers, and we didn't have to run around a car in tighty whiteys to get that friendship. We bonded over time, and because we got along and liked the same stuff. I get the argument that it is about proving one's commitment to the organization, but there have to be other ways to do that without the humiliation and other shit associated with getting into most frats.

    The point remains that to get into that Greek circle you were part of, you (likely, I'm guessing, as I don't know you personally) had to be subjected to some hazing. So while you aren't paying money for those friends, I'd argue you do sacrafice some dignity, and do pay in the form of accepting a certain amount of degradation and humiliation for the ability to join that social circle.

    If the benefits outweigh the "payment" for you, that is fine, more power to you. I just know for me, it wasn't something I was willing to do.

    Again, though, all frats are different. I had friends in frats that were still cool and hung out with non-frat people, while I knew others that retreated into Greek life and cut off anyone that didn't join a frat. It is still situational.
     
  3. dixiebandit69

    dixiebandit69
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    When I was growing up, I saw movies like "Animal House" and "Revenge of the Nerds" and thought fraternities were awesome, and wanted to be in one.
    Then I went to a few frat parties. Terminally fucking weak. I was always being cock-blocked by frat boys, and the whole scene in general seemed lame by the time I had matured.

    My mom was in a sorority. She said that the initiation was pretty tame, things like having to bow to all the senior members, reciting the greek alphabet, etc. Of course, this was in the early '60s at a Christian college, so I can't imagine things would have gotten too far out of hand.

    My dad went to college on a football scholarship and quickly became big-man-on-campus, and was bringing in all the pussy he could handle. Fraternities tried to get him to join, but he turned them down because he thought they were lame.
     
  4. JWags

    JWags
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    Thanks Captain Killjoy.

    I did research and emailed my faculty adviser who was a university history buff. It wasn't a law, but when sororities came to campus around 1900, it wasn't deemed "acceptable" for women to be housed in bunches together in houses, aka cause the only women who did that back then were prostitutes in brothels. Thus it wasn't a law, but rather caution towards public perception, but concerning the same scenario.
     
  5. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
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    Couldn't they get houses now though? That notion seems antiquated, and since there are no laws against it, I can't imagine why they couldn't get a house if they wanted one.
     
  6. Juice

    Juice
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    It's hard to argue with your statement because you're absolutely right. I guess in my defense the hazing that I was subjected to was all purposes around learning about the chapter. For instance we had our pledges carry around a small book with the history of our frat when they were going to class. We also quizzed them weekly in a line up with a flashlight in their face.

    One of the most extreme things we did was make them go on a scavenger hunt up to Boston on the fly and coordinated with the Bentley, MIT, and Northeastern chapters to help with it. I have pretty fond memories of doing that kind of stuff and never felt degraded or disrespected. Is that a form of hazing? I don't know, it's hard to tell since I'm not objective. I guess for reference, Sig Ep got kicked off campus for making their pledges climb an 80 foot water tower and spraypaint their letters on it. We made our pledges spraypaint ours on certain rocks around campus, but it was fully approved and allowed by the school.
     
  7. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
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    Just call me Topher

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    JPrue asked what the Garbage Can Bukkake is. I've also heard it called the Vomitorium. It probably has different variations, but Here goes:

    If a pledge screws up, every pledge is taken into a room with only a 55-gallon drum in the centre of it. The mouthy guy is put in something humiliating like a prom dress and is ordered to stand inside the drum. Every other pledge is handed a tall, refreshing glass of pickled egg brine with 1 oz. of Filtered Death (everclear) in it. The pledges are ordered to drink it.

    Here come the rules:

    -Nobody leaves until all glasses are empty.
    -nobody leaves until everybody vomits.
    -one drop of vomit on the floor and everyone starts over.
    -if the guy being hosed with death-smelling vomit in the trash can throws up, everyone starts over. He also has to sing or read poetry during the entire ordeal. If he stops, he is shot with a Supersoaker filled with the frat brother's pee.

    isn't hazing wonderful?
     
  8. Flat_Rate

    Flat_Rate
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    Man I really wish I would have pledged, doesn't that sound like fun?

    No fucking way I'd do that, why anyone would is beyond me.
     
  9. VanillaGorilla

    VanillaGorilla
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    I guess I have two outside views of fraternities. I attended a giant southeastern state school as a transfer from JUCO, so I was already nearly 21 when I was directly exposed to frats and by that point the ship had sailed. My father and grandfather were both SAEs, so I would have been a double legacy, but the local charter was revoked (?) due to some hazing stuff. Anyway, frats were around. They hung out at the same two or three bars and a percentage of those guys seemed to harbor a certain level of animosity towards non-greeks, but it wasn't a big deal. We just didn't hang out there. And, since it is the south, it wasn't like they had a monopoly on beautiful women.

    My sister, on the other hand, joined a sorority and had her experience. We'd go out every now and then and she'd insist that we go to every greek bar and visit every frat house in town. Granted, these dudes clearly wanted to bang my sister, and maybe they did. Fuck, I don't know. What I do know is they were as friendly and gracious as anybody when I was around. One of the funnier moments was chatting with a group of guys while my sister chatted with some random bro. I have always been a physically big guy, broke growth charts when I was growing up, and I was in pretty good shape. She turns around, puts her and on my shoulder and introduces me as her brother and this guy yells JESUS CHRIST! THIS IS YOUR BROTHER! HE'S FUCKING HUGE! Why didn't you tell me that, GorillaSister? He could kill me! Oh, hey, what's up, bro? We hung out quite a bit by her senior year. She was over it.

    So, it is what it is. The few buddies I know who have started fights with frat dudes would start a fight with pretty much anybody. Being in a frat is just as good a reason as any. I'm sure frats are the same way. There are just some guys who like to fight.

    Edit to add- Crown's stories are ridiculous. I have no doubt that some level of hazing goes on, but there's a lot of suspension of disbelief that has to happen to believe every word in the garbage can story.
     
  10. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
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    Just call me Topher

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    They don't tell them what's happening, they don't tell them what's in the glass or the water gun. I guess it's more fun for the brothers if they simply remove the options.

    Don't think of it as getting Herpes, think of it as buying a new best friend. For life.
     
  11. Dude

    Dude
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    I go to maryland, home of the DG sorority letter. We're definitely a bar school, and the bar scene is dominated by greek life. I am not in a fraternity, although the vast majority of the kids I party with are greek. The grimy basement frat parties are mostly a freshman/sophomore scene, although since our bars are so lax on fakes the bars are pretty much 18+ as well.

    The part that I fucking HATE is that many sorority girls will not give you the time of day if you aren't in a frat. I will be at the bar with a group of friends, mostly from fraternities. Girl will walk up, start chatting with me, ask me what frat I'm in. I'll tell her I'm not in a frat, and she'll leave. Immediately. She won't say a damn thing more. This happens all the time.

    I chose not to join a fraternity due to the fact that I couldn't afford to both ski and pay dues. I turned down several bids.
     
  12. toddamus

    toddamus
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    You ski in Maryland?
     
  13. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
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    Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet.
     
  14. audreymonroe

    audreymonroe
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    The most powerful cervix... in the world...

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    My school barely had any Greek life, and that was one of the factors in its favor when I was deciding between it and my other top choice. I think we had one sorority and one fraternity, and the sorority didn't even have a house and the fraternity recently had some internet fame for raising money for a transgendered member's female-to-male top surgery. So. But, that being said, I had a friend who tried pledging the sorority and she wrote about the experience for one of our classes and it was fucking ridiculous. I was completely shocked and disgusted by the hazing process and couldn't believe that it was going on at our school, of all places, which was basically an art school. I don't remember the details, but there was a lot of the body-shaming stuff people have already talked about, and it got kind of violent and mindfuck-y, and I think there might have been something involving dildos but, hey, maybe I'm just confusing memories from school and from watching porn, as one does. So based on that, I've always assumed that it's much worse at schools where that stuff is actually important.

    I went to school in Boston so I still had my share of frat parties in my first two years when no one had apartments for us to go to. The ones at BU, BC, and Tufts were miserable experiences. It just was not my scene and they weren't my people. But, one of the best - if not the best - party I went to in college was actually an MIT frat party. It had all the elements of a frat party but I guess it just wasn't as aggressively fratty? So I can't really hate on them too much.
     
  15. Rush-O-Matic

    Rush-O-Matic
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    I had a great experience with the fraternity I am in. I developed deep friendships through the organization. I also had a lot of fun with them, and though that has to do more with college itself that the Greek system, we still share a bond that's a little different than just alma mater. I also enjoy meeting new people, and finding out that they are in the same fraternity, which leads to conversations like when you find out you and a stranger share a hometown.

    During two of the Summers I was at college I also attended a National leadership conference and a workshop series. We had several meetings and classes that expanded my preparation for the real world, networking and other professional activities that reflect on being better prepared for life after college.

    All but one girl I slept with in college was directly related to my fraternity because they were little sisters. (I think they have done away with this auxillary group now, at least officially - not sure, as I am old.) Every one, seriously (and it's more than one, shut up). The other one was one of our little sisters actual sister.

    We also raised money for charity - a local one we worked with and a national one that helped disabled children. And, our fraternity sponsored national campaigns against date rape and excessive alchohol consumption. (Being honest, most of us were pretty hypocritical on that last one.)

    So, to sum up - several legitimate reasons why anyone would join a fraternity, imho:
    - friendships, with unique bonds
    - leadership conferences & professional education
    - sex
    - giving back

    YMMV
     
  16. JWags

    JWags
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    Well, 1) its become kind of tradition. 2) houses are expensive to build and upkeep. Most of the frat and sorority houses on most campuses, well at least mine, are quite old. The new one that was built when I was there was for a new chapter on campus and had some hefty alumni help. Thus if there is a system that has worked and is in place, National Headquarters isn't going to be keen to kick in the money to build and maintain a new house if its not necessarily needed. 3) Most sororities, like frats, have annexes off campus that are passed down so girls are only living in the dorm for a year or two anyways. While some dudes love living in a frat house for multiple years, the sorority corridors are more something you do for a year when you get in, and then its just a meeting/chapter sort of place.
     
  17. Pow

    Pow
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    I was in a frat at an engineering (read: very nerdy) school.

    You had three options sophomore year: find a group of friends and get an apartment together, join a fraternity, or go to the dorms with quite likely the weirdest and anti-social people you will ever meet.

    I made friends with a bunch of people from my dorm, and we all joined the same fraternity. If we didn't do the fraternity we would have gotten an apartment.

    Regarding the 'randoms' or 'independents' - it was a risk issue for us. We broke a lot of rules, and we pissed a lot of people off (mostly dudes). The combination of those is dangerous. So we generally didn't like random guys around, especially if we were breaking rules (drinking). The time we did get in trouble with campus was when a girl got obnoxiously drunk and out of control at a party and we forced sober driver to take her back to her room. She got caught in her dorm and claimed we drugged her. We also happened to be the fraternity with the biggest reputation for date rape. From my experience at my fraternity, all that really meant is that we had some sketchy dudes and we were assholes (both true). There was basically (you never really, really know) zero chance that it actually ever happened, and definitely never with the girls saying it loudly all over the place. Most of the times girls feel bad for getting so drunk and need to rationalize. What ended up happening the girls that did come up were more open minded and not so easily scared away by rumors, so it wasn't an all bad thing.

    Regarding the fees vs 'paying for friends' - our house was the cheapest place to live on campus. We ordered all food raw/unprepared in bulk from Sysco, did all of our cooking, cleaning, yard work, and electrical/structural/plumbing work. There was literally no hired outside help. With 40 guys in the house that type of efficiency scales well. Plus we had a little money to throw parties and have some fun events.

    Regarding hazing - it was mostly just an uneven distribution of work. Freshmen did 50% of work, sophomores 25%, juniors did 15%, seniors did 10%. Waking up to shovel snow? Call the freshmen. Quarter inch of beer on the floor from the party? Freshmen. We did have some events that were drinking related and a few more psychological events, but really it was just a bunch of cleaning and house work. I learned how to operate a mop, broom, shovel, and wheelbarrow like nobody's business. We created an extra amount of work just because we knew it would be cleaned every day, because the mess distribution was an inverted pyramid from who cleaned it. Do fraternities need to haze in order to complete college? No. But much like many performance-intensive organizations there are bonds created in the experience, and as long as the 'hazing' is productive rather than malicious I still think there's a place for it.

    All in all - still happy that I did it. There was more drama than I cared about, because its like having 39 roommates and 6 parents (frat leadership, board, national fraternity). Most of my best friends are from there. Oh and more than anything - every frat on every campus is completely different. There's almost no relationship from the same frat at different schools, and particularly not from school to school from what I saw.
     
  18. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
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    Can you go into this a little bit more? What do you mean by sketchy/drank so much they had to rationalize?
     
  19. Binary

    Binary
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    Here's the thing, though: do you believe that you would not have had unique friendships or sex without a fraternity? Do you believe that there is no way to do charity work without a fraternity? Do you think that there are no leadership or professional education opportunities without it?

    I have spent thousands of hours volunteering and lots of money donating to the community and charitable organizations. Opportunities in the community abound for leadership or professional opportunities, or you could serve your university, or be part of an honor society...

    I'm not denigrating fraternities, really, I'm just always a little confused as to why people believe these things don't exist outside the Greek system, or that they even exist to a lesser extent outside fraternity life.
     
  20. Juice

    Juice
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    Even though your post is dripping with condescension, obviously we all know you can do these things without joining a fraternity. You can also throw around a baseball in your backyard without joining a team, or go through life without associating yourself without any groups whatsoever and still live happily ever after.

    Personally I joined because I transferred schools and knew no one on campus except for a high school friend who was already affiliated.