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Porn KILLS!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nom Chompsky, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
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    I think porn, in and of itself, is perfectly fine. There's nothing inherently wrong with art intended to arouse.

    However, the current porn industry is seriously fucked up in a lot of ways, and should really be better regulated. People also should make an effort to watch porn where the actresses aren't being exploited.

    My full thoughts are longer, but that's pretty much the short version.
     
  2. Nom Chompsky

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    I ABSOLUTELY CAN.

    I actually wound up getting into a long argument with this on a radical feminist blog (which took that stance that all porn was always rape, which I found stupid). In between the histrionics, however, there were a few enlightening first person accounts. Some of this info is also porn blogs I've read.

    Drugs, drugs, drugs. A lot of women are drugged the fuck out all the time. The men too, fwiw, but they're usually on...let's say "uppers." I find it kind of creepy to watch a drugged out chick perform, even if she technically consented. Also, a lot of girls do porn to feed a drug habit.

    Some porn actresses have backgrounds of sexual abuse. Not all, but higher than the general population. Not saying that this disqualifies you from sex work, but there are some directors who are pretty skeezy and prey on these girls.

    Speaking of skeezy directors, there's pressure from the less scrupulous ones, in the forms of withholding payment and blacklisting. So even if a girl's not into a scene, she might feel pressure to continue with it, and scared of what will happen if she doesn't.

    Trafficking -- I've mostly heard about this with respect to asian actresses, but it's fucked up. A "liason" will arrange for passage from whatever country, in exchange for a huge fee which is basically impossible to pay off. Then they'll take room/board/percentage from every film, with the looming threat of deportation as leverage.




    All of that being said, there are some really great porn companies out there. While a bad porn company is much, much sketchier than regular sex, a good porn company involves way more communication than some drunken college gropefest, and likely much more thorough consent.
     
  3. hooker

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    People like to freak out about the commodification of sexuality and how women are systematically discriminated against because they have to deal with pornography shaping the way men (and the rest of society) view them.

    Well, fuck that. I disagree. I think hating porn and being "against porn" just promotes the idea that women are victims.

    I don't think most women in porn are victims - although, like Nom said, of course not all of them are the same. But these women are adults, making adult decisions to use their body and sexuality to bring home the bacon. Most of them are making more than the men (obviously), most of them get to choose who they fuck and how they fuck, and ultimately - maybe they just like getting all their holes filled in multiple ways, multiple times. That doesn't make them victims.
     
  4. Omegaham

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    Would you want your daughter or sister to do porn? As in, say you're browsing Spankwire and come across her getting railed by a trio of banana-wielding Mongolians. Would you be pissed, or would you say "Her body, her choice?" If not, then why would you want someone else's daughter or sister to do porn? This isn't just confined to porn; it applies to any job in the sex industry - stripping, hooking, etc.

    Of course, if you're fine with your sister / daughter doing porn, then by all means watch it to your heart's content.

    I don't rail against porn, as it's one of those things that people are going to watch regardless of my own opinions on the matter and I don't want to sound like a prudish loser. But that's my two cents.
     
  5. audreymonroe

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    I'm not a radical feminist, or close to a radical feminist (at least, I don't think so) for a lot of reasons, but the anti sex/porn stance is once of the biggest. It's one of the (many) beliefs being that far to that side of the spectrum has that they don't seem to realize is still being sexist. I hate when anyone (radical feminists and super conservative people alike) starts talking about porn like the women in it somehow weren't capable of making their own decisions. (This, of course, is on the whole, because as it has already been pointed out that's not always really the case.) I don't see how they can't see the irony in promoting equal rights for women, but still rally to take away the right to make a career out of sex if they'd like to. (Edit to answer Omegaham: Even if it was one of my friends, it might make me slightly uncomfortable, and depending on the person I might encourage them to do something in addition to it for many I think obvious reasons, but I wouldn't judge them for it, and I wouldn't tell them to stop just because it's making other people feel weird.) And I can't stand calling all porn rape from the same camp who want people to stop using rape so casually in conversation where it doesn't really belong (like how people use "gay" instead of "stupid").

    As for the "porn distorts men's expectations of women" argument, I'm not really sure how I feel about that. I kind of equate that to the violent video games debate. It kind of annoys me that no pubic hair is considered the norm, and I think the abundance of bottle blond/huge fake tits etc look is gross, but in the end I think there are more important things to care about. I usually wonder if the girls who complain about the higher sexual expectations brought upon by porn are so upset about it because they're not good in bed.

    Half-joking snark aside, there is definitely porn out there on the more extreme side of the scale that upsets me that it exists - or, I guess, more accurately it upsets me that people are into that. But as long as it's legal, I'm generally against censorship because who's supposed to be the judge? I think it's an inarguable fact that there is porn out there that's degrading to men and women alike, but the line's different for everyone. For example, I'm not hugely into BDSM, but I enjoy light stuff now and then and I'll seek it out in porn when I'm in the mood, but to a lot of people that would be considered degrading and beyond their limits. Just like I consider this [insert some crazy porn video I'm not going to try and find because I'm in public, but it probably involves poo and/or puking] too degrading to watch, but it was the girl's choice to do it (hopefully/usually) and I know for someone somewhere it's a harmless, positive thing.

    The main thing I wish was regulated was when it's so obvious that the girl is being forced to go beyond their limits because the directors know she "needs" the money for presumably a drug habit. Even if those can't be stopped from being made, they should at least not be able to make money. The same goes for amateur sex tapes that the girl has no idea is out in public, although I don't know how you're supposed to track that consent.

    Basically, to borrow another argument from the violent video game debate, I feel that porn -especially the more extreme stuff - is a good outlet. Fantasies get at least somewhat fulfilled, people blow off steam. Even if they're looking at something weird, I don't think it necessarily reflects on their real life, because (most) people can separate porn for what it is - a fantasy. I know that sometimes I like looking at things in porn that I would never really want to do in real life. And even if they do want to bridge the gap from the fantasy world of porn to real life, at least it's not going to be like a violent video game where they'll want to shoot up a grocery store and steal a car. They'll expand their sex life and find more ways to get pleasure. And as long as they don't try and fulfill that new want by forcing people into it, then so what?

    All this is to say: go porn. Shocking, I know.
     
  6. Aetius

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    I understand the sentiment, but by the same token I wouldn't want my son mining coal either.
     
  7. Binary

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    Not wanting to see your family member in a sexual way doesn't mean that porn is bad. I don't want to know my sister enjoys being tied up and covered with hot wax but that doesn't mean I think bondage is immoral. Heck, I don't want my sister to scrub toilets or pumping gas for a living but I don't think that people shouldn't be janitors or station attendants.

    Not wanting to view certain people in certain lights doesn't mean something is evil/wrong/immoral.
     
  8. hotwheelz

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    I basically agree with this guy. For those of you not wanting to watch a two hour video: As long as it's legal and consensual no one should be able to tell people what they can and can't do. It's extremely condescending to tell a grown woman that she can't and is incapable of consenting to doing porn. Obviously it's not okay when a situation like the AssMan describes arises and there should be a system in place that prevents that from happening, but I've never seen any actual research into how often that happens.

    Question for AssChoamsky: Why do you distinguish between uppers and downers?
     
  9. Dcc001

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    "Porn" is such a broad label that it's hard to classify it all under one set of rules.

    For example, a high end company like Vivid that pays the girls a substantial amount, manages their careers and has open communication with them as to what they will and won't do can hardly be compared to a 21-year-old college couple with a webcam shooting a sex scene from their dormitory. In the case of Vivid girls, while they may or may not be high, they certainly have a level of protection and I feel comfortable saying, "Hey, these are adults making their own choices." Go to any general free porn site, though, and it gets gray. A drunken sorority girl who decides to fuck the guy she met on the street watching the parade during Mardi Gras while his buddy films it on a camera phone is entirely different. Yes, she might be an adult and she may be "all for it" in the video, but how can we say that she (and he) aren't being exploited?

    In short, I think that porn is too vast to start making concrete generalizations. On the whole, I say live and let live. Provided everyone is the age of consent and then actually DOES consent, to each their own.

    On a more personal level, and this may simply be a reflection of my present frame of mind, I think that porn is one of the many things that marginalizes sex in our culture. Ironically, a culture that is sex-driven consequently becomes sex-dissociated. It's "no big deal" to see a girl get DP'd while some guy ejaculates on her face. Really? In your own life, how does that image gel with a healthy sexuality? If all porn sites shut down tomorrow, I wouldn't mourn. But I could probably say that about a lot of technological things.
     
  10. Nom Chompsky

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    Hottie, I was just making a Viagra joke. Apparently a lot of male stars take pills to stay hard, which is not at all surprising but not really healthy. I don't know of any hard numbers about exploitation but I think once is too many.
     
  11. hotwheelz

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    I don't doubt that it happens and I agree with you that it should never happen, but I'm just curious if it's as prevalent as some say or if they're more isolated cases.
     
  12. FreeCorps

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    It is insanely prevalent, to the point that it is almost an unspoken requirement to take them in the big time companies (Vivid, Adam and Eve, et al). Time spent dealing with, let's say, equipment malfunctions is time being wasted, and in a porn shoot time is money. Also, most of the guys that work get paid less than the women (shocking) so they try to do more scenes per day.
    Even more disturbing is the increasing use of a drug called Caverject, which you inject into the base of the penis and gives you an insta-boner. However, it can raise your blood pressure (even more so than Viagra), can sometimes make it almost impossible to finish, and people tend to build up a tolerance to it somewhat quickly. There was a story going around of a shoot in which the guy comes running out of the bathroom demanding that his scene get shot RIGHT NOW as he had just shot up and only had about a half hour of wood. Terrific.
    While there are a few old school guys who claim to either never or very rarely have used enhancers (Randy Spears being a notable one), most of the new school sees it as a necessary evil. I know as they began to become prevalent there were some actresses that preferred working with someone natural, but now the thinking has shifted to some well known girls absolutely refusing to work with anyone who they know is on Caverject.
     
  13. Firefnd1982

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    Just to nit pick a little, Viagra actually lowers your blood pressure. That's why when it first came out all those old farts were keeling over dead with a boner, they were taking Viagra in conjunction with their nitroglycerin tablets which can dramatically lower your blood pressure alone. Likewise from what i have read Caverject also lowers blood pressure.

     
    #13 Firefnd1982, Jul 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  14. ghettoastronaut

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    Would you have sex with your daughter?

    Then why would you have sex with anyone else's daughter?
     
  15. dixiebandit69

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    Here's an interesting article that chronicles the daily grind of a male porn "star":
    7 Reasons Why It Sucks To Be a Male Porn Star

    For what it's worth, a few years back one of my friends asked me if I was interested in starring in a detective-themed porno movie he was planning to shoot, but I immediately shot him down.
    I don't need that kind of negative publicity.
     
  16. Jubes2681

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    Generally, I have no problem with porn and enjoy it immensely. However, the other night, my boyfriend and I were enjoying some borrowed porn from the internet and the girl in it looked like she was barely 16. It was an immediate turn off. I'm sure she was of age, since it was from a reputable company, but I still had to turn on another porn.

    I have no problem with porn when people look of age, but I really have a hard time enjoying it when the woman is made up to look like a young teenager. I could be strange in that fashion, but it just creeps me out.
     
  17. Seeker

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    I put porn in the same category as strip clubs: fun as long as you're not thinking too hard about it, kinda sad once you do.
     
  18. hotwheelz

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    I meant the sexual coercion and abuse, but thanks for the information.
     
  19. Sicnevol

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    I always wonder why people only seem to think that the women are being abused and taken advantage of in porn.
    Why is consent only questioned on the part of the female? Its perfectly fine if a guy says he wants to do porn, and no one says a word to him about it, but as soon as a girl consents, suddenly she's been abused or she's on drugs and her consent isn't valid.

    Even if she was abused, do you think taking away her ability to consent to something as an adult is going to make things better?
    Why does this abuse only negate the consent in this particular case? She can't get out of her car loan because someone abused her.

    I guess the whole idea that someones past can negate their consent in a particular cases seems odd to me.
    You can't say someones consent isn't valid because they're doing something you can't see yourself consenting too.

    The fact that no one ever questions the consent of the male or males also seems odd to me as well.


    Focus: I like porn, I watch porn. If you want to consent to do porn, great. If not, thats cool too.

    If you don't like porn, then don't watch.
     
  20. lust4life

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    There's a debate?