But there still is some sort of immediate usefulness in what you welded right? I mean you weren't welding on truck balls? Your jeep needed welding. Besides your pride you had useful results. Money can easily help replicate that when you're completely uninterested in or there is no usefulness outside of your pride (honestly I took no pride in any of the easy A lib arts classes I was required to take in college AT ALL). I don't think it is some "sign of the time" that you'd want to add immediate useful results to what ever your doing. Just practical.
Does pleasure delay allow you to eat something that isn't on the WIC program, or help you ensure that grandma's not getting evicted? How many toys or books does pride of self purchase? They're good values, but they're not really as basic to humans as food, instant gratification (remember, these are children) or the security that money can bring. You're right. I think I had a choice about to whom I was born. Why didn't these dumbasses pick families that could better display simple family values? This pay incentive thing probably isn't the cure for the disease. But it is treating some of the symptoms. It'd be good to eliminate the root problem, but in the meantime programs like this are a benefit.
To me, it seems that working hard in a class to ensure that you get a good grade is pleasure delay. Look at the alternatives, I can go smoke pot/have sex/drink beer/play X-Box/etc which will make me feel good RIGHT NOW, or I can study for this test/write a paper/etc so I can earn an A at the end of the semester. If that means you make a few bucks too, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. As far of how things were when I was growing up. I was smart, self motivated, and good grades came easy. My sisters were the opposite. So my mother didn't think it was "fair" to my sisters to reward me for my good grades. Nobody really monitored my homework, lectured me about doing well, punished me if I didn't. In my case, I suppose it was just something I was born with, because it sure as hell wasn't taught to me. I would have loved to get money for it too, but it didn't really make much of a difference to how I approached schoolwork. Now cue my brother who was born many years after me. He got paid for good grades, he also got to go to the fancy private school (my public schools weren't that great) that I wanted to go to but the parents couldn't seem to afford for me, and all of the other ways that he may have been favored. Yep, maybe still a little bitter.
Isn't offering the kids money just a way to avoid talking about the real problem, that the school system itself is flawed? Can't find the video now but I thought I remembered seeing a TED talk about an inner city high school, (in NYC?) where the teachers would spend TONS of extra hours to keep kids at school after hours and do homework. They provided kids with the supportive environment that their home life was lacking, and it translated into far better grades, graduation rates etc. The kids were grateful enough to be away from home for a few extra hours, and the teacher featured in the video looked like she commanded respect from them like a parent would (should). Sure, it would be expensive. But it's money well spent, unlike the new pair of Nikes that cash test rewards buy.
Ha, I always argue that the only real effective way to give poor kids a chance is to take them away from their parents, glad to hear someone has sort of tried that with good results.
Agreed, but you tend to find a lot more shitty parents in poor areas and so many people try to blame poor kids for failing because of the teachers and a school's funding, when the real issue is the parents. Extra funding isn't going to change the fact that these kids are going home to parents that don't value education.
This makes no sense. I'm telling you what I think the problem is, not saying the kids should have been able to do anything about it. But I'd go further and say that parents should be held responsible for their kids actions. Start fining the parents for the shit their kids do. Didn't go to school? $50 fine. Kids failed a class? $200 fine. You'd better believe that parents would start paying more attention to what the hell their kids were doing if it started costing them cash. So sure, give cash to kids to make them better students, but by the same token, take cash away from parents for not doing a good job.
How do you think that would help with parents who already don't care. If the choice is paying $200 to keep their kid in school vs. their kid being expelled, they would most likely chose the latter.
If I'm not mistaken some areas of the DFW had "shadowing" where if the kid missed a day the parent was required to come to school for an entire day effectively punishing the parent. I heard something about fines a while back too.
You could fine and punish parents all you want. I could see how it would be effective to people who care though. There would have be laws set in place on ways to enforce a parent to pay. And then possibly an appeals system for those who want to fight it. And then do what? Appeal to a credit agency to further ruin their credit, if they even had any to begin with. In my job, I have to go to these areas of town quite often and it seems that their situations are so desperate that making sure their kids go to school or even care about education at all is on the back burner. I'm not saying they aren't responsible but they are more concerned about what they might have for dinner that evening, or if they even get to eat at all. And this lifestyle and mentality is what I believe contributes to the cycle of poverty.
Thats the point though. Nobody seems to give a shit unless it costs them. Make it cost them via fines, and they WILL start to give a shit. Maybe not for the right reasons, but they will.
And I also think that there is no immediate solution to this that will help the current crop of students. Like I said, I believe this has to do with proper values not being instilled in the kid early enough. My grandfather told me once: I tend to believe this. The kids that are set in their ways aren't going to change, it's the next generation that we have to help. How do you do that? I have no idea how to do it, really, but those initial family values play a huge part in it, and I think they have to "come back", for lack of a better term. And it's not dependent on affluence. Being poor or rich doesn't make you better or worse at being a parent.
Because the poor have a lot of money sitting around to pay $200 fines. I understand what you're saying, but you're talking about money they don't have in the first place.
That's the fucking point. Make it a problem for them, and then they get on their kids to not make it a problem for them anymore. In other words, if you make it so that when the kid fucks there are repercussions for the parents, the parents will get them in line. Right now there is no motivation for the parents. THAT'S where the motivation has to be applied.
I'm guessing that the set "parents who don't bother with their kids education" has a very high overlap with the "people who are really shitty at planning and anticipating consequences and adjusting their behavior accordingly" My guess is that the vast majority of these parents are either trying their hardest and failing, or not trying and could not possibly be motivated to try no matter what you do.
Instead of punishing the taxpayer for the lack of motivation or competency of parents, let's just let the chips fall where they may when it comes to their children's academic performance. If parents themselves are unable/unwilling to properly motivate their children, why should taxpayers have to foot the bill? The cost of something should be borne by the party it benefits. More motivated/competent parents sacrifice their own time, energy, income and resources to raise their kids because they see a benefit in boosting the fitness of their lineage. It's more instinctual ("love") then a cold-calculated effort, but the costs of this sacrifice are more or less borne by those who benefit. In the case of paying students to perform, taxpayers bear the costs of something they don't benefit from (possibly having a "better" workforce down the road is not a good ROI), while incompetent/lazy parents free ride.