<a class="postlink" href="http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/adults-may-paddle-students-of-opposite-sex-in-texas-district-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/adul ... district-1</a> In a nutshell, administrators in Texas may now paddle students of the opposite gender for misbehaving in class. First, I had no idea that any district was pushing for broader corporal punishment laws. Second, I had no fucking clue paddling children was allowed in ANY district in North America. I thought that if you struck a kid in class, that was it - game over for your job. We've done the spanking at home debate to death, but I had no idea spanking at schools was an issue. Focus: Should teachers be allowed to administer corporeal punishment to children in school?
Fuck no. Fuuuuuck no. Here in Australia, if you have a relevant degree (maths, science, english, history, etc) you can be responsible for a classroom of children after 12 whole months of University(Link). Do I trust an undertrained, overworked kid fresh out of University who feels they have exhausted all non-violent punishment options to appropriately discipline my kid? Hahahahahahaha.
If you can't keep a bunch of kids in line without hitting them in the ass with a board, you've failed as an educator.
This isn't a big deal to me. but I grew up in North Texas, in a town damn near identical to what is described in the article. Hell, it's probably close to my hometown. That said, it really IS the parents call. Many parents in those areas spank their kids, and many parents know and trust the school board (and are related to them on one level or another), and many parents know that the school doesn't have unreasonable rules in place. So to those parents' minds, if Principle Walton calls and says Little Johnny broke a school rule and he is going to into ISS for it, the parents WOULD rather he just got the paddling. It's simply the way things are there. The kids expect it, the school and parents see (mostly) eye to eye on it, and honestly, with the exception of particularly hardheaded kids like myself, most kids DON'T get swats more than once or twice in the thirteen years they're in public schools.
No. However, it is important to remember that "In all cases, a parent must give written permission and request it in lieu of another punishment, such as suspension or detention." It's not educators dispensing these willy-nilly on kids. This goes beyond education itself and is a reflection of culture in a broader sense. Speaking to the effectiveness of the policy, you know that if a kid is trying to opt-in to a punishment because it is less severe it is obviously not working very well. I would have much rather taken swats in high school than in-school suspension. Sore ass for a day or three would beat taking zeroes any day of the week. In high school, I actually had a big fight with my mom because she opted me out of corporal punishment. I didn't play football and couldn't get laid, so I thought that being seen as too weak/scared/whatever to take swats would be social suicide. My high school (which was pretty much in Texas) has a fucked up history with paddling of all sorts. Seniors were hazing male freshman Dazed and Confused style as late as 2004 (they even made the paddles in shop class). This stopped after the hazing was bad enough to make the regional news. And there were still teachers that would administer their own corporal punishment as late as 2005 (and probably today). I'm sure that was/is an egregious breach of actual policy, but the paddle (commonly referred to as the Board of Education) was, and most likely still is, hanging above the chalkboard in the classroom with the signatures of everyone who had been swatted by it. I took corporal punishment on purpose twice just to sign the paddles. Once for a teacher who was retiring and again for a different teacher when I graduated. Some places sure are strange. They don't even do that sort of thing in Bumfuck, Kansas.
To be fair, the girl CHOSE the paddling over a 2 day in school suspension. And before the Vice Principal did it, they have to get approval from the parent--and the mom gave it. Where the school violated the rules was that it was supposed to be administered by a faculty member of the same sex. So the school screwed up. However, the school board just said, well, we'll change the rules. And they did. Now a female faculty member just needs to be present. What surprised me was the reason she got in trouble. She let someone copy her homework. That seems like a small reason to earn a 2 day suspension. Personally, I would make my child take the suspension. Particularly if they wanted the paddling. Maybe years ago a paddling would have been different, but today, it just seems creepy. On a little tangent, when I was in 9th grade we had an English teacher that hauled off and slapped this kid across the face for touching the VCR. I mean, full arm swing. I think the kid had a palm imprint on his face for the next two periods. The kid goes home, tells his mom, his mom calls the school. The teacher comes in to class the next day and MOCKS the student. "Oh, listen everybody, Mr. John Smith, is oh so cool and had to go home and tell his mommy" said in a sarcastic voice. He never got suspended though. He was definitely old school.
Hasn't this always been the standard procedure in Texas schools? As y'all may have imagined, I was a little smart-ass in school, and wound up in trouble many times. I was only spanked once in public* school (in the 4th grade), but when it happened, there was a female student who also got spanked by the MALE principal, and we were the only three people in the room. I remember that spankings were still being administered through my middle-school years (up to 8th grade), but I was never the victim; I opted for ISS, where I could read the books that I wanted and draw. I would never allow anyone but me to lay a hand on Li'l Bandit. Not his mom, not his grandparents, not anyone else, and I haven't had to spank him since he was 6 years old. These days, I think he's too old for spankings. Taking away privileges works much better. *My time in private Christian school is a different story...
Whats the age limitations on this cause I could see alot of paddlings being merited out to mouthy junior and senior in HS girls, just sayin...
Speaking of that... The girl in the video is pretty cute. Sounds like he really got into it. Just in case it wasn't obvious, that's the paddling that caused the rule change.
I don't see the big deal. Punishment is punishment. I think for any given transgression, student (and criminals too, for that matter) should be given the option of either some sort of exclusion (suspension/detention/etc) or some number of licks. If a student chooses the paddling, then it must be a more lenient punishment for that student. What I don't understand is why they have to be paddled on the ass. Why not a part of the body that doesn't have vaguely sexual undertones?
Not just no, but hell no. Not today, when you simply don't know what kind of environment kids have at home. I don't have kids, but I have worked with some truly fucked up kids, with parents that make me wish there was a license to fuck. You simply cannot physically touch a child in today's environment. I could give a shit less about fucking up the child's perceptions, that's irrelevant. What is relevant are the lawsuits, accusations, required investigations, and utter nightmare of proving what did or did not happen when a teacher or school official touches a child. Remember, we live in an age of hysteria when it comes to pedophilia, so what (male) teacher is going to say to a student: "Paddle or detention?" What piss-poor licensed professional can't come up with a better way to punish a kid? I don't like the incredibly ham-fisted and stupid regulations we see in public schools now, but this is one that I think should stick. Don't hit kids that aren't yours. Parental consent, other teacher present, blah blah blah. Nope. There are no winners in that situation: the kid is now THE problem child in your class, the kid's parents are hardly excited that their progeny is getting spanked by a teacher (after that cooperation is not high) and the school's policy would have to be "fire them first, ask questions later." when a lawsuit inevitably pops up. Finally, remember that teachers have to work with kids for at least a year, sometimes more. That kind of treatment irrevocably changes the teacher/student relationship, and rarely for the better. I would HATE working with a kid that I had spanked, because it separates them from the other kids and it puts the option of physical violence in my head as an option for Timmy The Asshole Kid that I wouldn't consider for other students. How do you explain to a kid why Timmy gets his ass spanked, but Tommy gets detention? The kid's logical conclusion is that Timmy is an asshole that the teacher hates, and Tommy is a nice guy that the teacher loves, and your classroom falls apart. I'm sure being a parent might change my perspective, but if I'm a good teacher, it never enters the equation out of respect for the school, the parents, my career, my reputation and the kid itself.
Three of the nuns I had in grade school used corporal punishment: Sr. Theodosha used a yardstick to give one "A good thrashing to the legs" where the boy had to drop trow in front of the class and she beat the back of his thighs (never saw this administered to a girl). Sr. Hilda had an actual paddle (made by a student's parent) with "Silence is Golden" stenciled on it. Sr. John Catherine used her hand and slapped the person's face from right to left like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon. The one kid from my class who was on the receiving end most often from all three eventually hanged himself in Rahway state prison. He was a total douchebag so I see this as a positive correlation.
Brother Ambrose from Christian Brothers School used to walk up and down the rows while he lectured. If he caught you talking or doing something while he was talking he wouldn't break his stride or do or say anything until his regular pacing brought him up behind you and then he would grab that nerve on your shoulder right at the base of your neck and dig his thumb into your chest cavity as far as it would go. He wouldn't even change the tone of his voice while he did it; he'd just keep on lecturing whilr you writhed in agony. When he figured you had had enough he would let you go and just keep on walking. It was essentially useless as a punishment because it never stopped any of us from talking or doing anything else, it just added a sense of danger to it. And no, I would not allow a public school to use a paddle on my children.
Some of the older Jesuits were like that. Fr. Murray would make an unruly student kneel on a window pole and, like dispensing penance, the student would have to pray X Our Fathers & Y Hail Mary's in Latin. The most severe transgressions earned saying The Rosary. If this doesn't sound like much, try kneeling on a pole of about 1.5-2" in diameter. I never saw him get a repeat customer.
During the years I was in grade and middle school corporal punishment was allowed. If you were disuptive or in need of punishment, you just might go down to the office, discuss it with the principal and get a whack or two to remind you not to do it again. Most of the time the parents were not contacted and did not know what had happened. I think in ways it allowed children to learn to take responsibility for their actions. You learned the the parents could not bail you out on everything. Most importantly, you learned that if you kept your mouth shut, took your punishment that the problem ended there. Having had to deal with suspension, detention, and repeated notes to be signed with my own children for mostly small transgressions, I wish my kids could have had to deal with problems at school as I did.
And her mom is a moron. 97.8 GPA? Even if that was her average percentage in each class, who calculates and spits that shit out? /threadjack over
I think they should punish the children by putting dildos of varying (bigger for more outrageous behaviour) sizes into their ass. Spanking is more of an 80s thing. With all these students evolving to have more padding down there, something more drastic must be done. Plus it would prepare them well for prison.
Yes, corporal punishment should be allowed in public schools, especially if parents give express consent for their children to receive physical punishment. If administered properly, swift negative responses work very well with people and animals alike when the negative behavior is caught and dealt with immediately. Students have developing cognitive ability and sometimes a lecture associated with a suspension or restriction isn't going to connect the dots. As time passes, the association with the infraction and the punishment lessens. On the other hand, a teacher telling a student what they did wrong and administering physical corrective action can be very effective because the entire episode can last less than five minutes. Catch the kid, make sure they know what they did, administer punishment, and go about the day. It's a hell of a lesson about actions and consequences.
No fucking way is some "can't do" gonna be hitting my kid. If there's a problem: let me know, and I'll fucking deal with it. Can corporal punishment get some kids into line? Yeah, but not every kid. I just got it from my parents, not too bad, but it messed me up in some ways, I didn't learn right from wrong from it. I just flinched at adults over nothing. I can't be sure, but on reflection, I'm pretty sure I had an innate sense of right and wrong growing up, and if you told me I was doing something wrong I'd burst into tears. Even then, I was percieved as a "good kid" in school, and got away with a bunch of bullshit, and yet I was punished for other jerkoff's crap. I never once saw this as "balancing out," just unnecessary unfairness. And when I would befriend the "bad kids" I'd see them get singled out and punished for no good reason. No way am I gonna trust a teacher to administer physical punishment correctly. There is no way they'd be able to correctly judge a majority of the time. No fucking way. I love education, but I distrust schools immensly. Aussie schools are different from the US, but I don't believe by that much. I think there are major problems within the institutions of education, with no easy solutions. I'm uneasy enough as it is with the knowledge that I'm going to have to send the boy to a place that'll teach him that learning is boring work, and that popularity within a microcosm is important. It's fucked up. Going back to the teachers: A good friend of mine is an educator, who teaches classes of 9 year olds. He works in a small crappy town (the nation's whipping boy), where needles and used condoms are regularly found, and yet he keeps his kids in line without resorting to corporal punishment. He's a great guy, the affectionate nickname "fun police" notwithstanding.