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Oh please just kill me now!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Superfantastic, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. Superfantastic

    Superfantastic
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    So this topic has made me have some, let's say...interesting thoughts, one of which I thought I'd share.

    The idea of having pre-funerals for someone of sound mind that simply wants to die. I'm thinking of my Grandma specifically. She lives on her own and she's not in pain (well, not in the same way someone with MS or Alzheimer's would be), and she cracks me up now when I visit just as much as she did when I was a kid -- I'm more thankful for all that than I am for just about anything in my life, but her body is shutting down. She can't leave her house, or even be awake for long periods of time. She takes more pills (including home visits from nurses with injections) than food. Every couple weeks her stomach balloons up with fluid and needs to be drained at the hospital. The only reason she lived through her last heart attack is because my uncle happened to be coming over to see her that morning -- she didn't hit her medic alert necklace thingy. Now, I've seen and heard of people in unbelievably worse condition, but the doctors have said there's nothing more they can do but wait it out, and at this point she'd refuse help if it was offered.

    So my idea is, why wait it out? Why not set up a small gathering of close family members, where we can have one last night together with Grandma? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want my of-totally-sound-mind Grandma to do this, but I would want her to have the option to say, "you know what, I'm done with this life. I know you'll all be sad, and I am too, but I want to go on my own terms. Let's drink!"

    Again, for basically selfish reasons (i.e.- I don't wanna start feeling guilty for not visiting her enough before she died, but really, it would be impossible to visit her 'enough'), I wouldn't want Grandma to die any earlier than nature says, but conversely (and hypothetically), I think I'd rather be there holding her hand and offering last words than getting a phone call from my father, with my utterly distraught mother crying in the background.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. MoreCowbell

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    This largely is my concern. My knee jerk impulse is "Well yes, of course someone should be able to end their life if they are suffering!" And when you frame it in terms of, say, a 78-year-old with cancer, it seems obvious. Plenty of other people have said why, mostly boiling down to end of suffering and autonomy of the self.

    But what of the 35 year old with depression? Do we say the same thing about them? The knee jerk sympathy with their desire isn't the same...but what is the objective difference? Even if physical pain isn't present, they are definitely suffering. Yet most of us would be loathe to say that we're morally obligated to grant this option to the depressed.

    What if a mentally compromised person unequivocally wanted their life ended? Do we consider them capable of the decision?

    It all seems obvious, until you start considering the fringe cases.



    I'm also made somewhat queasy by the numerous reports by people who have jumped off a bridge, etc. and said that they changed their minds halfway down. How many people, if any, changed their mind after the button was pushed?


    I'm unsure of how much I agree with that. Yes, your death may be your own, but is your life? If a father of 4 offs himself, leaving his family alone with mountains of debt and and without an income, do we merely shrug our shoulders and say "His death was his own"?
     
  3. Jimmy James

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    Focus the Second: Yay. I'm a big fan of personal responsibility. The choice to end your life is yours. The fact that that you're doing it with a doctor's help is really, to me anyway, irrelevant. The only difference between a guy that gets help and the guy that puts a gun in his mouth is that his relatives don't get the joy of finding his body (or what's left of it.)

    While I can see the concern of some people saying "Oh, what about the fact that he's got a wife and debt, etc. etc." at the end of the day, unless you're a part of the immediate family, it's none of your damn business. And even if you are part of the immediate family, how do you not see someone's pain and suffering up close? When I was feeling suicidal, everybody that associated with me knew I was in a bad way and urged me to seek help. And even if you didn't seek help, your family can have you involuntarily committed. If a person decides to kill themselves even after all of that, then there probably wasn't a whole lot more you could have done for them anyway.

    Alt-focus: I think re-enacting the Rocket Car story would be an amazing way to go.

    Once upon a time, in some out-of-the way part of the country (take your pick of locations) a maniac took a rocket of some sort, and mounted it on the back of a car (make and model depend on automotive trends when the story is told). The maniac then sped down a deserted stretch of highway, and when he reached an appropriate spot, he lit the rocket. Unfortunately, the rocket (which was either a JATO bottle, a surplus ICBM engine, or an experimental Shuttle booster) proved to be far more powerful than the maniac anticipated. The car reached an incredible speed in a matter of seconds (somewhere between 150 miles per hour and Warp 9) at which point the car's brakes and steering became... ineffective. This development would've been bad enough on a straightaway, but through some error in planning or navigation, the maniac found himself hurtling down a road that curved sharply, not far from where he ignited the rocket. When the car arrived at the curve, it went straight ahead instead of negotiating the turn. Pilot and car then flew like an arrow (for a distance only limited by the imagination of the person telling the story), before crashing into an inconveniently-placed mountainside.
     
  4. lostalldoubt86

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    My mother and I were actually having a conversation about assisted suicide recently. (This is completely normal because 1. She is a nurse, and 2. This conversation happened after she watched a documentary on the subject.) A good point that she brought up was how this is different from hospice. One might take longer than the other, but in the long run, it's still allowing someone to die without being in pain.

    As for whether I believe in it or not, I think that if a person is of sound mind, they should be allowed to make this decision. But I also think that it should only be an option when there is no chance of the patient recovering. I hope my last point is obvious, but you never know.
     
  5. scootah

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    I'd argue that Euthanasia would only be applicable for people who required assistance. The depressed 35 year old can fellate a handgun for the most part, without medical assistance. I'd also argue that there's a clear history of assigning medical criteria before performing a proceedure. Do we amputate someone's foot if they want us to? Do we remove someone's kidney on a just because process? I'm not sure why Euthanasia would even be on the table for people who have a high expectation of recovery and resumption of a sustainable quality of life. And if you have no expectation of recovery or sustainable quality of life? meh.

    We don't generally let those people decide that they want to go on birth control. Why would we let them choose euthanasia? If you're capable of making your own medical decisions, then you're capable of choosing a final medical option. If you're not capable of making those decisions? Power of Attorney or execution of a living will isn't a new concept. There's a clear doctrine for the decision to withdraw life support from a patient who is unable to take responsibility for their care - I don't see why it would be any different.
     
  6. StayFrosty

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    Similar to Superfantastic's post, my grandmother is in bad health and has anywhere from two weeks to a year to live. She can still get up and out, but her heart is going to fail inevitably, and imminently. Her birthday is coming up in a couple weeks, and I'm going to take this as a going-away party of sorts, because it's all but definitely her last. Celebrate the life, rather than mourning the loss of it.

    Much closer to the focus, she is still talking to doctors to fully understand what she can do to limit the chest pain she has, but she has already signed two forms - one DNR, and another forbidding ANY medical attention whatsoever to be given her without her consent. This is fully legal - she has every right to refuse medical attention to extend her life. Why then should it be against the law for her to have medical assistance in ending it? Other posters have already laid out the crux of the matter, and that is that each person's life is their own to give up if they so wish.

    Obviously, the matter is completely different in cases of mentally ill persons, but there is no authority which has any standing whatsoever to refuse medical personnel the right to assist a person of sound mind of ending a life that is in unbearable pain or irreparably damaged health.

    If I were ready to die, I really don't know how I would go, but here's one possible way: OD on a medicine that will kill me painlessly, and end it "in my own bed, with a bellyful of wine and a girl's mouth around my cock". Barring that, a free fall from a very, very high place.
     
  7. Sam N

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    Of course we say "his death was his own." In fact, we have to. Or we say, "What an asshole," which means the exact same thing.

    His life was not his own, he chose to share and burden that life with a family. But his death? That is definitely his own, he just proved it by dying.
     
  8. jordan_paul

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    Holla

     
    #28 jordan_paul, Jun 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  9. Crown Royal

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    He wasn't a brilliant man and pretty much a kook, but I agreed with his policy 100%. It was a painless way to avoid a brutalizing trip through hell before checking out. Terminally ill people should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want to themselves because in my opinion old books don't describe what it feels like to die from heart disease.

    On the thought of thinning the herd, Americans could speed up death row this way. Put their cells on the 30th story and an open window thoughtfully to the left of the bed. Load their cell with every sharp object known to man and strong, easy-to-noose sheets. Taxpayers rejoice.

    Oh, and whisper in Nancy Grace's ear every night to kill herself. I just really want her to die.

    I'd like to go behind the trigger of a gatling gun, mowing down Mexican militants by the dozens as the sun sets on the West. After taking a hail of bullets, I would turn to my trusty sidekick: Yeah, I hurt Dan. But y'know, it's a GOOD kinda hurt.