The drain on the medical system created by obesity is sufficient for me to be judgmental of these obese individuals. The predisposition for diabetes, hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, coronary artery disease, peripheral vascular disease, diabetic neuropathy, obstructive sleep apnea, early onset osteoarthritis, cerebrovascular incidents, diabetic retinopathy, etc... etc... all create financial strain on our current medical system, which is of course shouldered by everyone else through insurance premiums and taxes paid into Medicare and Medicaid. Study after study has demonstrated that lifespan is prolonged in animal models by decreasing caloric intake. Risks for that specific example of colorectal cancer can be decreased with Gardasil vaccinations. Deaths attributable to obesity and it's complications per JAMA are 112,000 and can range all the way to 440,000 depending on the study. Deaths attributable to HIV/AIDS according to the CDC were 18,234 in 2009
I couldn't help but think of this thread last night as I stood in line at the pharmacy, behind a woman who was at least 250 pounds, and clutching a bag of 3 Musketeers bars. That, my freinds, is a choice.
But according to this guy in another thread, I don't have free will, so even though I could biologically capable of hooking up with a guy, I can't and won't.* *Unless its Tom Brady.
I don't make fun of fat people, but I have to admit that I silently judge them. I used to be fat (I know a lot of girls say they are or were fat, but I was diagnosed as obese by my doctor) but I was able to lose the weight by dieting and exercise. There is just some part of me that thinks fat people choose to be that way. I also feel like if someone chooses to be fat, it has nothing to do with me and I should just get over myself. Maybe they are happy the way they are and I can just fuck off.
I can see some logic in the idea that sexuality is a "moving target" for a lot of people. But, that is behavior driven by genetics. Being overweight seems (generally) to work in the opposite direction: genetics driven by behavior. Neither is an insurmountable obstacle, but they are extremely different. All else being equal.... For example, some people can suck down junk food like a vacuum cleaner and be petite...their genetics simply prevent them from gaining weight. These people suck, by the way. Some people simply cannot deviate from a healthy diet because their genes force their body to a high level of metabolic efficiency (ie, "Waste nothing, save all the fat you can!"). In other words, their behavior (eating) has to be moderated because their genetics will make them suffer (being overweight and the accompanying litany of health problems). They can change the behavior, given a genetic response. The behavior is the more powerful force, even though the genetic response is constant. But homosexuality, if you accept that it's a genetic predisposition, works in the opposite direction. Someone whose genes predispose them to liking the same sex drives their behavior. To be honest, who would make THAT choice, given how much homophobia and discrimination exists in "developed" countries, not to mention all those delightful places that castrate or execute homosexuals? The genes are the more powerful force at work here, because it's an urge not a response. You can't claim to make a rational choice to switch teams because it's easier or whatever. All else being equal, I'm turned on by straight porn and gay porn will not elicit the same response, and given my normal environment, that is largely not something I can change. TLDR: fat people's eating behavior causes a genetically-moderated response (getting fat). Gay people's genetic makeup drives their gay behavior (gay-havior?).
I've heard this number tossed around a fair bit but don't have a source for it. Speaking broadly, genetic issues probably have some role in ~50-80% of cases of obesity and could include things like leptin gene defects or syndrome x. Acquired issues such as hypothyroidism account for another chunk. Just because there is an underlying genetic or acquired issue doesn't mean it can't be countered with lifestyle change in many cases. Something I didn't see mentioned skimming through: being slightly overweight doesn't seem to have any negative impact on lifespan or health, and is more healthy than being underweight. Random thoughts: having to cut through 5 inches of solid fat to do a coronary bypass is truly horrifying. Human fat smells like pork when the electrocauterizer hits it.
Yes to the first - same goes for doing a hysterectomy. For the second - I always knew it was close to lunchtime when the bovie made me start daydreaming about fried bologna sandwiches. And mustard.
Can someone break this down for me a little bit more? I understand that some people are genetically unlucky. And I understand the nuances of hormonal responses to food intake. But I can't wrap my head around how genetics is supposed to trump physics. Caloric Intake - (Resting metabolism + Exercise) = Weight gain/loss Where does that equation become unbalanced for the genetic fatties? Do their eyeballs start bleeding if they don't get their 4000 calories a day? If they don't eat enough, does their resting metabolism revert to a nominal bear-like hibernation-state? Is there an allergy that prevents them from buying vegetables at a farmer's market? Focus: Even with a doctor's note, I don't have any sympathy for fat people. And the comparison to homosexuality is bizarre. Not only is obesity an everyday choice (as opposed to something that develops in a person throughout their life), but it causes measurable societal harm. And is gross to look at. The AIDS argument is nonsense (stigmatization and the refusal to deal with it by straight people is just as much to blame for its proliferation as the poor guys just trying to get a nut off).
Spoilered for length and rambling. Spoiler I've been overweight most of my adult life - I turn 31 later this month. I'm 5'8", and since I stopped growing in terms of height, my weight has fluxed from 190 to 215, right now I average 205 on the scale. I wouldn't say I'm satisfied about this, but it doesn't really make me unhappy either. I enjoy going out to nice dinners, having cocktails with friends, and on the margin I'm the type who would rather go hang out at the bar and have a few beers than go for a run. Is this lazy? Maybe, but it's definitely a choice. I would like to have more knowledge of how to eat better in non-social settings, because maybe that would make some difference of biasing me towards minor loss or maintenance, but for the most part I make a conscious choice to enjoy my life and associated lifestyle. There are no doritos or snack foods in my house, and I don't eat dessert. Why am I "obese" according to BMI? Well because I live a rather sedentary lifestyle and I think portion control is probably a big problem for me. Even when I was working out 4-5x a week, lifting weights and a good bit of cardio, I never lost any weight because I'm the type who would feel better about getting the exercise in, and then end up replacing those calories with something awesome to eat. Meanwhile a good friend of mine is 47, he wakes up at 6am to ride a hundred miles on his bike every weekend, and I wake up at 6am to drink coffee and read the paper. At some point, old habits die hard even though you know better. Now that I have a kid, and a crazy work schedule, my weight is staying the same but I can tell I'm getting weaker and fatigued more. That sucks, and I would like to fix that, but I really have no interest in becoming a marathon runner to get down to my proper weight of 165, and dedicating my precious free time to hanging out in a gym. I used to work with a guy who was morbidly obese. 5'10 and probably 275-300 pounds. I ran into him at a convention two years ago and he looked like he had lost a hundred pounds, and is running triathalons. I didn't recognize him except for his nametag. He clearly got to the "I'm smarter than this and this is killing me", or he got gastric bypass, but either way he had adjusted his lifestyle to add in the activity. I make no bones about it but this type of change would be the hardest thing for me - it takes so long to see results, and you have to give up everything you like about your life (eating, drinking, socializing) in your few free hours of each day, and stick with it for a year to make progress. It sounds insane, but again, even though that is a choice as well, it feels like a hell of a scary sacrifice. I'm sure as hell going to make sure my kid plays sports though. I never did and never knew what it was like to be in shape and be comfortable making that marginal decision in the other direction. TLDR - I enjoy indulging my inner fatty; I could be worse, I could be better, but not willing to drastically change my lifestyle yet. Fat friend lost of a ton of weight because he got fed up with it. I think busy working professional types like myself gain weight as they age not because they are coping with emotional dependency on food, but because it's too inconvenient to adjust their choices til they hit some kind of ultimate breaking point. I don't want to have fat kids.
Life is a choice. They have a pill to cure it. So, I'm going to make fun of the living, everything else is a sub-genre.
No, you just (based on my experience pre-cutting carbs) experience physical pain, clear irritability, inability to focus, and a hair trigger temper. Not a productive state to be in if you value things like a job - though obviously health is a higher priority, it's very easy to convince yourself otherwise if you want to stab someone in the face for having the audacity to have work for you to do at your job.
Not to mention feeling like you are going to starve to death halfway between dinner and bed. I felt like an anorexic losing weight with the "just eat less and move more" mentality.
Maybe it's different if you're obese, but I had no issues cutting back to lose weight. I'm also wondering how much you guys were cutting back. You really shouldn't have more than a 1000 cal deficit in a day's time, but unless you are paying close attention to exactly what you're eating and in what quantities, plus what your calorie needs are in a day, you probably cut back way too much. I'm not saying oh you were doing it wrong, you stupid head, I'm just saying that people tend to take the dieting thing overboard a lot of times and sabotage themselves.
I honestly forget, my BMR was crazy high at the time, I was probably on an 800-900 calorie deficit. I found my bigger issues came up in waiting between meals because I didn't have the calorie room to snack, I couldn't endure the 5 hours between lunch and dinner, and if I tried to snack i just like, snapped. (right now I'm technically on a 900-ish deficit I frequently go under, but I'm not really hungry enough to eat up to that many times)
BMR or calorie needs? If you are using a BMR calculator it is no wonder you were starving. Unless you're in a coma, you are using far more calories than a BMR calculator is telling you. Use this: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy- ... e-advanced</a> As long as you are brutally honest regarding the efforts and times of various activities, it will spit out a solid number. And if you are in the obese range, I guarantee the number is way higher than you expect.
I think it has more to do with genetic disposition, it sounds like you only put on weight when you get sloppy with your diet and don't work out much. If I don't stay lower on the carbohydrates or starve myself going the conventional route I will put on weight, the same is true for pretty much everyone on my mom's side of the family. Side note though, they are almost all obese but it's mostly subcutaneous fat and none of them have the normal health issues you would expect in people so heavy, yet if you looked at them you'd think they were a heart attack waiting to happen. This is another thing most people don't realize, the type of fat matters, a person who is 30 pounds overweight with all visceral (think beer belly) fat will probably* have more health issues than someone 40 pounds overweight with subcutaneous fat. *Numbers pulled directly from ass but I think you get the point.
Oh you're definitely right, I packed on the weight at the end of college taking 21+ hours and planning a wedding. I shouldn't have been eating so much crap or drinking so much, but I learned my lesson and now it's gone. Another thing to note is that even I, with apparently normal genetics (?) don't eat a terribly lot of carbs. That's a whole other discussion though.
Anyway, we don't need to have another discussion on health, healthy, obsese and fat. The question was "Can we mock them?" The answer is a resounding "yes". Now who has some fat jokes? "I wouldn't say you're fat but you have more pounds than the Bank of England, and I ain't talking about your wallet." Q. What do you call two fat men having a chat? Spoiler A. A heavy discussion.