Fuck Philadelphia. This signing has the potential to cause the mouth-breathers who make up 90% of their fanbase to become more irritating than Boston's sports fans. Still, I'm happy for Cliff Lee. He's my favorite pitcher in the game, so I'm glad to see him on a team where he's happy.
ESPN was already trying to decide if the Phillies rotation next year is the best ever. I personally do not think it is even the best in the National League. Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez and Bumgarner look like they can compete pretty well. The Giants rotation is much younger than the Phillies also. The A's signed Matsui today to be a designated hitter. The Rangers lose Lee, A's pick up a player from the Angels. Hmmm, I am beginning to think the A's just might have a chance in the AL west next year.
No way. I may be a Braves homer, but even I think that not only do they absolutely have the best rotation in the NL, it's probably the best in the MLB right now. Head-to-head, Philly's #1-4 are better than SF's #1-4. As for best ever? It's possible, but my baseball history doesn't go back far enough to say one way or another. The best rotation in recent memory to compare them to is the Braves of seemingly every year of the '90s, and one page has done exactly that. It's a close comparison, but I'd say Philly still has the edge. Then again, it seems like the rules, absence of PED testing, etc. made pitching harder 15 years ago, but I have absolutely no stats whatsoever to back that up and just pulled that opinion out of my ass. That's why I don't like comparing teams/players between decades in any sport, because their evolutions make them tricky conversations. With all the power the Phillies have in their lineup, I'd say they're a bigger threat right now than Atlanta was a decade ago. Wasn't it just 2 years ago that everyone was knocking their pitching and that they didn't have what it took to win a championship, in spite of their big bats? Now that they have pitchers in spades, it's hard to argue that they're the preseason WS favorite. Not to mention some dude they have named Charlie Manuel...
Dude are you on crack?? Seriously. You can say that this is your opinion, however your opinion would then be stupid. With the exception of Lincecum there isn't even a guy on that roster who has 20 wins, ever in their career!!! A couple of them barely have more wins than losses. Honestly that was just stupid, if you are going to make a blatant statement like that at least have some validity to the argument other than they are younger. Despite the youth I still like the Phils four over SF's, so does the rest of the country. You could probably compare the entire pitching staffs to each other, Wilson is nasty and so is the Giant bullpen but I still will have to go with the Phils big four. The A's can have as big a season as they want they won't be taking a series from the Yanks or Sox sorry to say. Say what you want about Phillie fans but one of the reason's we got Lee was because his wife got spit on in New York, we may have morons vomiting on people but at least we have the sense to not spit on a future Aces wife. I have to say Cliff Lee coming to Philly has got to make Zack Greinke really, really happy. **** Kinsey hard to say best ever quite yet I'm pretty sure the Braves quartet wrapped up six or seven Cy Youngs in their tenure. Tough to beat.
Mike, you thought I was crazy when I said I thought Nevada Reno had a chance to beat Boise State also. We all know how that turned out. Head to Head the Giants won the Season series against Lee and the Phillies pitching staff this year. That Cain does not have more career victories is more a reflection on how little run support he has had for most of his career. Past success does not guarantee future success. Lee is 32, Halladay is 33 as is Oswalt. They are all at an age when they can be more injury prone and may start to lose their arms a bit. It is certainly safe to say that their is no more upside to the Phillie pitchers. The Giant pitchers are all under 27 about the same age when the above three Phillie pitchers all started to have their best years. The fun part is we only have to wait four more months to start to find out whom is correct. Right now I would just like the A's to make it into the playoffs. I remember how well the Red Sox did last year (failed to make the playoffs) and how well the Yankees did last year (got owned by Texas). Having a Big payroll does not guarantee success. But you absolutly cannot go to the World Series without first making it to the playoffs. Baby steps.
We're not talking about which staff will be better 5 years from now, we're talking about the present. Being younger doesn't lend an advantage in that discussion. In fact, their relative inexperience could be chalked up against them. Yes, they won the Series, and good on them for doing so. They're obviously doing something right. But top-to-bottom, the Phillies have the more potent arms. Also, 32-33 isn't that old for pitchers. If anything, they're at their prime. Randy Johnson won his World Series MVP when he was 38 and was still going the All-Star game and throwing no-hitters past 40. That may be the dumbest thing I've seen on this thread. Fuck this discussion. I can only defend the fucking Phillies for so long before I lose my mind.
What? Wrong guy, no clue what you are talking about. That may work for Matt Cain not the other two. Also I wouldn't mention run support with Roy Oswalt in the discussion. Cain and Sanchez have a couple years under their belts and I'm pretty sure the most wins they had are 14. So what if they get hurt? That is your defense? Newsflash, Matt Cain can get hurt as well. So can Lincecum. I honestly don't know how you are even trying to make this argument, honestly the Giant Starters were not better than the Phillie starters last year. Before you start puffing out your chest I know they won the WS, however does that mean the Phillies 08 staff (with Jamie Moyer) was better than last years? That would mean Cole Hammels is the best pitcher in the discussion right? He won a WS M.V.P. Wrong my argument is based on facts, ERA, wins, and WHIP. Your argument is the pitchers are old. Honestly it's ridiculous. I think Sanchez is a fluke and we will see this year whom is correct.
First of all, as a Phillies fan, I'm loving the Cliff Lee signing. However, my expectations are not heightened. Why? The Phillies didn't lose the NLCS because of pitching, they lost it because of hitting, and they sent one of their better hitters, Jayson Werth, to the Nationals. To be fair, the Phillies had a shit-ton of injuries last year, so if they play up to snuff, they'll be fearsome. As to the best ever conversation, there's only two rotations that I can think of that I've seen (born in '72) that come close - the late 80's Mets, which included Gooden and Ojeda, and the mid-90's Braves, which had Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux. San Francisco has a great rotation, but they don't come close flat out pitching wise. Should be a good year.
If you are just interested in comparing the Phillies upcoming rotation to a single years excellance there is always the 1971 Orioles. Mike Cuellar, Pat Dobson, Jim Palmer and Dave McNally each won 20 games. They then went on to lose to the Pirates in seven games who of course did not have a single 20 game winner. The Oakland A's had a pretty good staff from 1970 to 1975 with Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue and Ken Holtzman. Their best year was probably 1973 when each won at least 20 games and they beat the Mets in the World Series.
I never really understood why the Phillies traded Lee last year anyway. You can't undervalue just how many innings Lee and Halladay are going to eat up. Philadelphia's bullpen might pitch half as many innings as a lot of other clubs.
You know for the most part I have no problem with Werth doing this. He has a WS ring and players perform their whole career to try and get this type of contract, to make sure that generations of their family do not have to work. Obviously he couldn't take the Phillies offer (wasn't even 80 million) but I'm a little surprised he didn't go to the Sox. Rumor was the BoSox offered him 5 years 101 million. Hey I realize 24 million isn't chump change but when you are talking about this much money is it that much? I know it's another two years as well giving Werth security (and the Nationals a 39 year old outfielder) I just would think playing for the second biggest baseball market would open up more doors. Don't you think Werth has more chances for endorsement deals after playing with Boston then Washington? How about the hall? If JW has five similar years he could come close to 500 HR's and maybe take a shot at the doubles record. If he was on Boston he could probably also make a run at some post season records as well. This is one of the biggest in your face money grabs I have ever seen. Again I didn't really slam him until I found out about the Boston deal. <a class="postlink" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5923404" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5923404</a> Werth thinks that this is the type of team that will bring the city a lot of Championships.
I just read that Magglio is returning to Detroit on a 1-year contract worth 10M. Other notable Tigers signings this offseason (it's been busy): Joaquin Benoit for 3 years, 16.5M Victor Martinez for 4 years, 50M They also resigned Inge and Peralta.
This. People (myself included) predicted the Phillies could score 700 runs in 2010. Instead, the full starting lineup played together all of 18 games, and the offense had several streaks of an embarassingly anemic run production. Werth slumped the lease out of anyone. The starters have to stay healthy (the bench is deep on defense, light on offense) and Domonic Brown has some deep shoes to fill in RF. As far as staying healthy, Rollins and Ibanez are my biggest concerns on that front due to age. Oh, and Blanton is still listed on the Phils' active roster.
I don't know how anyone can blame a player for taking the fattest contract given to them. Considering the circumstances it only makes sense. Their careers are short and prone to ending abruptly at any given time on the field. This is the money they will make for their entire lives for the most part, everything else will pale in comparison. Fuck a championship when you've got your fucking life to plan out.
Has anyone told the idiots in charge of baseball that announcing the award winners a month after the season is the least compelling way you could do it?* Why? Just answer me that. WHY? If it's awarded for your regular season performance, you think they could award it after the regular season. Booo *In honor of them this post was made one month late
Thoughts on this off-season: The Cliff Lee signing makes the Phillies better. It doesn't make them the consensus best team in baseball, or even the National League. I would bet against them winning even 100 games: Cliff Lee adds maybe 4 wins, and I don't think they were a 96-win team before. The Red Sox lineup isn't that much better with the addition of Carl Crawford, as he's not really an elite offensive talent for a left-fielder. If they had added Luke Scott, nobody would be crowing over their lineup, and I'd bet their 2011 production is comparable. He does make their defense significantly better, but if the Red Sox win a bunch of games, it will be because they got healthy contributions from players like Pedroia and Youkilis. Jayson Werth isn't that much worse than Carl Crawford right now, so I understand the National's giving him that much money; that being said, 7 years is way too long and he doesn't really figure to age nearly as well.
Say what you want about Wells, he has a chance of being pretty good, and at least he doesn't cost as much per year as Carl Crawford. ::looks up respective salaries:: Well, that can't be right.