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Mindbody

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dcc001, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
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    Just call me Topher

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    As far as "alternative medicine" goes in my opinion, the only kind I rely on is usually perscribed to relieve pressure behind your eyeballs. It's also a damned GOOD one, I'll have you know. I don't know about too many of the others that are perscribed by "experts" who prefer to never wear shoes whenever possible. There is no shark cartilage or enchanted elk testicle out there that can let you run through a field of pollinating flowers while downing an entire pot of black coffee and 6 cinnabuns at the same time while the whole while feel like you took the good purple ecstasy with the Statue Of Liberty emblem stamped on it.

    For medical advice, I rely on people who went to college for six hard, well-earned years rather than a dude in a hemp poncho. Just sayin'.
     
  2. ghettoastronaut

    ghettoastronaut
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    Emotionally Jaded

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    Are you fucking serious.

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567</a>

     
  3. Dcc001

    Dcc001
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    New Bitch On Top

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    Doesn't the placebo effect have merit in and of itself, though? If there is, in fact, no division between body and mind and the mind believes itself to be better (and subsequently the body follows suit), doesn't that work just as well?

    I think too often the placebo effect is dismissed as proof something doesn't work, when the effect itself should be studied and utilized more for its health merits.
     
  4. klky

    klky
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    Village Idiot

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    I think that this is a little harsh (full disclosure, I have doctors in my family). For those just going through medical school, it's no longer just about medicine. There's a focus on environmental and mental factors as well (my brother's med school had a couple classes on "spirituality and medicine"). As I mentioned in my earlier post, most of the people that I meet that practice consistent meditation are doctors, especially surgeons.

    When talking to your average patient, most will often request the medication and ignore or get offended when there are discussions of lifestyle change. If you really want to address someone's chronic issues, therapy is often a good idea, but I think this board is skewed towards having a more liberal perspective on therapy. A lot of people get upset when the suggestion is broached, even if there is an established relationship. You also have to deal with patients who have already printed out their diagnosis via WebMD and think that any suggestions not including their chosen prescription are bogus. I agree with you that it's a two way street. There often isn't the necessary relationship for patients to trust a doctor that suggests non-traditional techniques or for doctors to trust a patient that is interested in exploring them. My point is that, in many cases, the patient gets the care that he/she requests; it's not just the medical profession that's shifted.

    I've always had good experiences with doctors, but a lot of this is because I spend time shopping around when I move to a new city. Talking to friends, browsing Yelp, unless your insurance is ridiculous or you live in a very small town, there's no reason why you should be stuck with a GP that you don't trust. Keep in mind, however, that having a GP that's willing to talk and explain the issues is a double edged sword. I often have to wait over an hour for an appointment, as my GP won't cut another patient off if she wants to talk about whether or not diet coke is causing her weight gain for 40 minutes (true story). I'm willing to wait, but I think the fact that a lot of patients aren't shows that many people go to a doctor looking more for a prescription pad than a trusted medical relationship.
     
  5. ghettoastronaut

    ghettoastronaut
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    Well, you say this as though it isn't already being used in some ways. Blue or green sugar pills have the effect of sedating someone, and red pills tend to be stimulating. Anti-depressants with a stimulating side effect (see: prozac) come in which colours? Blue and green. Gravol and benadryl tablets are sedating, and they come in pink tablets. I might be reading too much into it, but I don't think it's a coincidence.

    But then there's the other side of the placebo effect: it's extremely paternalistic. Sure, your doctor could prescribe you a pill and say that there won't be any side effects and you'll feel amazing after taking it, and a few more people might feel amazing and have no side effects just because they were told that. The people who do get side effects? They won't trust that doctor again, and they'll go on internet forums and call doctors paternalistic assholes.
     
  6. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated
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    Late to the party, typically...

    FOCUS: Absolutely, but you need to look at what aspect it is that you're considering. Attitude can have a massive effect on the sensation/perception type issues such as pain; that's obvious. To a certain extent, your frame of mind can be influential in respect of health issues related to physiological processes. Sometimes it's direct, and sometimes it's a causative effect (for example, if you're stressed you tend to not take care of yourself and therefore your health suffers) - that becomes a very philosophical argument.

    There's some things that are just never going to be capable of influence without the development of super mind powers. You can't wish a broken arm to set. You can't wish a cancer away. You might be able to mentally put yourself in a state where the chances of your body's processes to do something about it are optimal, but that's about it.

    ALT-FOCUS: I think there's a distinctive lack of understanding of the relationship between the two. First, as noted, there's a lot of cross over between the two now. Certain aspects of old world medicine work well, and have gained modern "acknowledgment". Others we write off and rubbish. That's where things get hard. For all that it "knows", modern medicine does not know everything and can't treat all diseases. It can be remarkably paranoid and quick to write off alternate remedies, especially if they're not couched in palatable terms. Then it requires "evidence" of effectiveness, but doesn't acknowledge that just because something is not yet capable of being explained it doesn't mean it can't work.

    Although only an anecdote, there's a story of a medical conference where a Chinese doctor gave a very detailed lecture on bioelectricity and bioelectromagnetism. Someone asked how he was so learned on the subject. He replied that it was simple, the Chinese had known about them for thousands of years - they just called them "Chi". Neat story, but it demonstrates a point. There doesn't need to be competition between the two, and you don't have to pick one over the other.