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Men's Rights or Men's Wrong?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by downndirty, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. downndirty

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  2. Juice

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    Cleaning out the Suggestions Board. But figured we could bump this one... from 5 years ago because it still seems somewhat topical.

    As far as Men's Rights, I think the whole concept (for or against, whatever those mean) is silly. Putting half the population into a homogenous group as if they have the same wishes, concerns, issues, etc. just doesnt seem like it makes any sense. I feel the same way about treating any group as a uniform voting block. I generally feel the same thing about women's rights, but at least there are some gender-wide issues that make sense to call it that.

    But for the average man (excluding other demographic factors), what rights do these guys think they don't have exactly? It never seems like that can be articulated. Sure, there are problems with custody battles in some states versus others, men not being taken seriously in domestic violence situations, etc. But are these issues really that widespread? The genesis of the whole thing always seems to go back to not being able to get laid and being angry at women because of it. It always has a toxicity to it that creeps below the surface and eventually takes over. Thats where the Incels thing comes from.

    [​IMG]

    Whatever, my $0.02. Bump.
     
  3. walt

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    Focus: I think it's a genuine concern and that Cracked article paints with a really broad brush.

    I knew a guy who bought into the Red Pill movement and told me about. I checked it out on reddit, and there's a LOT of bullshit on there ( although a friend of mine and his girlfriend are a textbook case of their "alpha fucks/ beta bucks" theory ) which I think this article focused on. But there's also some merit to some of the idea of men's rights as well.

    Some of the things I look at and wonder, "WTF" include things like, say, child custody. Or say she doesn't even want the kid and gets an abortion. Does they who fathered it have any say in the matter? He sure as hell doesn't if she decides to go after him for child support.

    Anyway, a good movie to check out on Netflix is "The Red Pill". Here's a TedTalk the filmmaker gave:

     
  4. Flat_Rate

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    Men’s rights when it comes to child support and custody should be more of a thing than it is, I know way to many guys who had an amicable divorce who live at poverty levels because of outrageous child support payments.
     
  5. Kampf Trinker

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    They do occasionally touch on real issues, but framing them under the scope of gender inequality makes less and less sense in contemporary politics. I think that's why it so rapidly devolved (and continues to) into another pointless culture war(see stupid article in first post) rather than addressing any of the problems.
    There seems to be a lot of using statistics in a really misguided way to imply systemic discrimination. Is the male suicide rate far higher? Sure, but in what way does that derive from any sort of societal systemic pressures and what does this have to do with 'rights'?
     
  6. walt

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    I don't think it's about a systemic pressure ( at least not from what I've seen). It's more about how it's either frequently overlooked or completely ignored.
     
  7. Crown Royal

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    This is, in fact, a thing.

    If there was a Men’s Divorce Rights movement, I would totally get that. But these MGTOW guys.... dude. We are the ones who can dunk a basketball, open the pickle jar and still be cool after we’re 50. What do you have to complain about in Western society that isn’t entirely self-inflicted?
     
  8. Clutch

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    I think that there definitely needs to be a counterweight to the feminist movement that points out that men are people too and not just monsters. There is a serious problem since the '70s where the feminists have focused on abolishing the parts of the "patriarchy" that they don't like while preserving the parts of it that benefit them. I have a cousin who cheated on her ex-husband, makes more money than him, yet she still gets alimony on top of the child support. That's pretty fucked up.

    That said, the sort of people who get really into it are shitty, broken, and mostly young people who want to blame all of their problems on some imagined "other". The same could be said of the bulk of the loudest modern feminists. Society would be a lot better off if we went back to ignoring both of those groups.

    You're close to understanding. For the most part they (the ones who aren't retarded incels, anyway) aren't upset with women. They're upset with how an increasingly large segment of the male population is disingenuously siding with radical feminists because they think it will somehow get them laid.
     
  9. Crown Royal

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    Male feminists have serious fucking mommy issues. Like brrrrrrrr, talk about a creepy (and obvious) hidden agenda.

    This again boils down for my disdain for people joining “groups”. So, you’re rebelling against the norms by following a set a rules somebody else established? And you’re going to go to meetings and join online communities where you can exchange humblebrags with your fellow so-and-sos?

    Pass.
     
    #9 Crown Royal, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  10. sisterkathlouise

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    Ohmygod i never should have come here.
     
  11. Esian

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    Amen to that.

    Having recently gone through a divorce with two young children involved I can say we have a long way to go in regards to Father's rights... or at least in my small piece of the world we do.

    Fortunately, by the end, I finally ended up with a judge that seemed to understand the whole of the situation and while I didn't exactly get much handed to me, I felt like he was listening and actually trying to do the best by our children.

    Our journey started with the Friend of the Court making the decisions and it was clear from the get-go that I was in a situation where because I had the penis everything was against me.

    If it wasn't for my willingness to spend more in attorney fees than I did on my first house, support letters from several neighbors in both of the neighborhoods we lived in during our marriage, and an absolute unwillingness to take what was being handed to me I would have been regulated to seeing my children for a handful of hours a week.

    --

    As for the rest of the Men's Rights drivel, it all sounds like any other hate group attacking outward because they don't want to face that the shit wrong in their life is theirs to fix.
     
  12. Crown Royal

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    This post was brought to you by Tylenol.
     
  13. Kampf Trinker

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    I don't really see them as a hate group. That seems to mostly come from feminist groups cherry picking quotes and making disingenuous links with white supremacy organizations. Feminists never argue with or debate anyone, this is pretty much what they do with anyone who disagrees with them. The MRAs seem more like a group of guys who faced a little bit of unfairness in their lives, blew it way out of proportion, and think they're victims because they're not getting as much attention as other people who complain about every problem in their lives.

    The problem is a lot of these 'counterweights' are just as annoying and histrionic as the feminists themselves. Personally, I don't care if feminists want to dismiss every counterpoint to their ridiculous theories and narratives as 'white maleness' or pretend they're doing something important fighting for rights that have been established well before they were born. What bothers me is how people feel obligated to take them seriously because they agree with the general concept of gender equality. Take that "emotional gold digger" article we had on here awhile back. Complete and utter nonsense. Your brain would have to be pure scrambled eggs to write something like that. But people treat it as if it's an intellectual perspective on an entire gender's plight when it's obviously just the ravings of deranged, delusional ding bat. The fact that drivel like that is treated as if it's a legitimate academic field is what irks me. It belongs in the garbage bin with the rest of history's harebrained ideas.