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Mad Men Season 5

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Parker, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. audreymonroe

    audreymonroe
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    The most powerful cervix... in the world...

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    Peggy isn't really leaving, right? Right? I wonder if this is what Weiner meant when he said a major character was dying in more of a metaphorical way. I don't know if I can take Peggy leaving SCDP AND someone else dying in a three episode arc.

    I can't decide whether I feel really happy or really miserable for Joan. Being a partner is a really fucking big deal for a lady at the time. I loved the contrast between her and Peggy doing what they have to do to get some.

    Don was breaking my heart the whole episode. His reaction to Peggy quitting was the best/worst. When he kissed her hand, I was like:

    [​IMG]

    Really just Don's Face with everything. I loved watching him react to Ginsberg's pitch and know that he was thinking about Megan.

    I really don't know how to feel about this episode, or life, now. I think I need to go throw up.
     
  2. El Tee

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    My first thought after the episode was "I'm sort of disgusted...but not at all surprised." I mean that on two levels.

    First, make no mistake about it: the reason the partners discussed this plan of action is because they all, on some level and for their own reasons, think Joan is exactly the kind of woman that would entertain this sort of proposal. Bert Cooper is a fossil, though polite and eccentric, that doesn't take women seriously in the office. Roger Sterling is someone that believes everyone has a price. Pete Campbell is a selfish prick who isn't all that far removed from the young exec that tried to fuck every hourly employee in the firm. And Lane Pryce? Well, he's just desperate.

    I'm not entirely sure if Don's opposition to Plan Holloway was due to a) a long-held if somewhat flexible belief that SDCP shouldn't resort to gimmicks to earn business; b) a sincere, if only recent, fondness for Joan herself as we saw last week; or c) an aversion to prostitution due to the fact that his own mother was a whore.*

    Regardless, I found the most fascinating part of the episode the way that Joan very naturally slipped in between the sheets, so to speak. We already knew she preferred to use her feminine wiles to get her way in the office (as seen when Peggy had the young writer fired before Joan could), so this seemed like just a natural extension of her method. To me, she seemed more offended by being left out of the decision making loop than by being considered for this in the first place. This episode definitely needs a rewatch.

    And on the second level, I'm thrilled that "Mad Men" can still shock me with stories like this after five years. Keep bringing it, Weiner.




    *I know, I know: Don has actually paid for sex before. But as far as we know, he's only paid one prostitute to actually abuse him. And I'm also not counting the mercy fuck he paid for Lane, since that seemed more like a professional favor from his own personal sex professional.
     
  3. Kubla Kahn

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    I too was quite shocked at how well the show made me feel really disgusted with the whole situation put to Joan. I don't agree with your bolded part. When she has used her feminine wiles in the past it was more of the tease or the hope for more from her than just screwing to move up in the world. In this situation it couldn't be more cut and dry, she would be used as a fuck puppet or else there was no deal. I think she was upset because she realized every except Don would seriously considered it. I think she was probably hurt most by Sterling who she does have feeling for not stepping in and putting his foot down for her. I think the only reason why she did it was because of her precarious spot she is in being a single mother who is divorcing her husband. I don't really feel like she would have considered it seriously otherwise.
     
  4. Parker

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    Rumor Has It (I have not researched this, I don't want to find out the truth myself) that the Peggy goodbye scene was improvised. Don was supposed to be a little more aggressive in holding her hand, Peggy slowly tries to pull it away.

    Also Audreymonroe you must not watch Breaking Bad. Bryan Cranston is the reason Jon Hamm isn't going to win an Emmy until 2013.
     
  5. El Tee

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    The shame is that much of Jon Hamm's brilliance comes from tight dialogue and reaction shots, which don't play well on Emmy screeners. Unlike the Oscars, Emmy voters only get to vote on a couple of episodes chosen by the producers as opposed to the whole body of work (i.e., the single film) for an Oscar nominee. "Mad Men" doesn't work like that, unfortunately.
     
  6. audreymonroe

    audreymonroe
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    I just watched all of Breaking Bad, actually. I think it's a close call. If it was up to me, they'd alternate winning each year.
     
  7. Juice

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    I had my money on Peter committing suicide at some point, but I think I'm going to have to go with Lane. This tax evasion stuff coupled with the embezzlement might do him in.
     
  8. Kubla Kahn

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    I thought for the Oscars they sent out screeners with the actor/actresses best scenes? Or at least scenes in the film were highlighted to let the voter know which scenes to focus on?
     
  9. El Tee

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    Nope. The Oscars get the whole film but the Emmys only get the 2 episodes out of 12 or 23 episodes from that season.
     
  10. JWags

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    I must have rewound and rewatched Hamm's face when Peggy told him the agency she was going to. That twitch and swallowing of his initial reaction? Just absolutely brilliant. Cranston's character portrayal as a whole is superlative, but Hamm is an absolute master of facial reactions and subtle tics.

    Also, what a terrible attempt at passive aggressive persuasion by Pete. Just redefines smarmy douche.
     
  11. Chirpy

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    My friend and I were debating Lane last night.

    He says that he thought Lane was a hero because not only did he save his own ass, he truly did help out Joan in her time of need. Becoming a partner is really the best thing for her future financial security. And of course, there was no other way she'd be able to earn partner...the old boys' club would just never think of it. She, herself, is a member of that club, using her sexuality to control men and get what she wants. It would never have dawned on her either that she could leverage herself and be a partner. She simply accepted her position and continued to work hard.

    I said that Lane was a scumbag who only used Joan in order to profit for himself. The Lane that we've seen in past episodes, yes, had his Little Chocolate Bunny, a hooker from Don, and stole a kiss from Joan but he's never been particularly disrespectful toward women. In fact, I think he has a real affection for Joan and therefore had he not been in the financial predicament that he's in, he would have punched Pete in the face again for merely suggesting that she whore herself for an account. He thought of himself, only himself and never gave Joan's needs any real thought. It was just a clever way out where he looked good and covered his ass.

    Truth be told, after hearing my friend's argument, I'm torn. Did Lane have a dual motivation in helping both himself AND Joan or is he really just as dark and selfish as the rest of the characters?

    That said, I can't wait to see what happens between Joan and Sterling. I'm not sure I'd ever be able to forgive a man that I was that close to who disrespected me so badly.
     
  12. Kubla Kahn

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    Um, I don't think she would have used her leverage, fucking skeezballz for contracts, in a normal situation to become partner even if she had figured it out. I don't see Joan fucking her way into things like that. I don't think she'll do something like this again unless she either has a huge change of character or is put in another very hard situation in her personal life. Besides being a junior member I really don't know how much pull she'll really have outside of her function as office manager. Her using her feminine wiles in the past were more on her terms, I don't know how'd she'd react if she became the eye candy attraction for new clients as part of her new place as junior member. Before it was more about maintaining control in her job.

    As for Lane, I think he does care about Joan and at least gave her an out AND offered her partnership. I think like someone else mentioned Lane would probably have beat Pete down again had he not been in the situation he is in now. I think this is really a stark new low for Pete. He's been a whiny bitch for the most part and petty at times dealing with others in the office. His sly back handed bullshit and conniving in this situation I don't think is forgivable. Don's put up with his shit because he realizes he's hard working and ambitious but I could see a very large divide grow between these two.
     
  13. Chirpy

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    Sorry, reading over my post, I don't think I was clear. I didn't mean using her leverage as fucking skeezballz for contracts. I meant leverage as being able to use her sexuality to manipulate men. My point was that she has always known, accepted, and played her role as the one woman in control of the boys' club and therefore never figured she could be equal to them. I think she has always brilliantly maintained a high level of control around the office and had she been able to think outside the box a bit, could've maneuvered her way to a partnership easily without actually fucking anyone.
     
  14. Clutch

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    Another interesting aspect to the Lane-Joan dynamic is that I've got to think Joan is going to be the one who is most likely to catch Lane's embezzlement.
     
  15. audreymonroe

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    The most powerful cervix... in the world...

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    I'm not so sure about that. She has worked there for 13 (18?) years and they just promoted her to office manager (in title only, with no raise) a year or two ago. She doesn't know anything about the actual business because they won't let her learn anything. They didn't even consider her for the position of script-reader after she filled in to help Harry that time, even though she was awesome at it. I don't think they'd even consider Peggy for a partner in a million years, what with sexism and all. (That was another great little moment in her and Don's breakup scene when she had her seconds-long reaction to being told Joan was a partner.) I'm going to be interested if they really act like she's a partner from here on out, especially knowing what she did to get there. I wouldn't be surprised if they made her whore herself out and then turn around and treat her with disrespect because she's a whore. I also can't wait to see how Roger is going to react to this. She was wearing the fur coat he gave her when she went to bang the dude. That has to mean something.

    I find it strange how quick Don was to assume Peggy was a ho that was only in it for the money (when he threw the money in her face I was all BITCH NO YOU DIDN'T, and also when he assumed she was there for a raise) but was so quick to save Joan from actually being a ho.

    As for Lane, I'm not sure. I think his primary motivation was selfishness. But I do think he made a very good point and suggestion about demanding a partnership. I like to think that he wouldn't have had that meeting with her if he hadn't come up with an alternate solution that would save his ass and have a betterish outcome for Joan.

    Gah this episode was so complicated. I'm going to be unraveling it in my head forever.
     
  16. iczorro

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    I wonder how much of that is Don seeing Peggy as a younger, female him?
     
  17. manbehindthecurtain

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    Holy Shit, Price can't do anything right.

    Don is 2/2 for instigating suicides by hanging.
     
  18. JWags

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    Unfortunately that plot twist was telegraphed. Don's facial expressions were fantastic, you actually had to feel for him.

    Fantastic job of managing to keep Glen creepy as he grows older by tossing in the crust-stache.

    My favorite line of the episode was probably Roger telling Don he'd buy him a drink after he wiped the blood off his mouth. That was a blistering monologue.
     
  19. Kubla Kahn

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    Wait, who was the first? It's slipping my mind.



    Fucking sucks. Guess my bet on Pete was wrong.
     
  20. manbehindthecurtain

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    Didn't his half brother kill himself when he came to New York to meet Dick Whitman and Don turned him away for a 5,000 bribe? He hung himself in the apartment house he was staying at and donated it to the owner. The owner told Don about it later.