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Mad Men - Season 4

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by WickedBitch, Jul 10, 2010.

  1. Kubla Kahn

    Kubla Kahn
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    Pete's just always been a little bitch. Ken was never a stand out character aside from drawing Pete's ire by being promoted. He had a story published and Sal was gay into him, that's it. He is just a tad more useful to the series than Harry. I still wish theyd have kept Kinsey in the picture but all three of them have been replaced by the new creatives under Peggy.
     
  2. El Tee

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    That's what makes it all the more fun to watch. Ken doesn't really need to do anything specific to rile Pete up except to be a richer white guy that went to a better college than Pete. It's a total WASP thing.
     
  3. Guy Fawkes

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    I'm really enjoying the twist of Don writing a journal and cutting back on the hard living.

    I was a little down on the first few episodes of the season because it just seemed like the same old shit rehashed.

    This is starting to get interesting.
     
  4. JWags

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    I wasn't in love with the voice overs, but otherwise thought it was a great episode.

    Glad to see Bethany back, cause she is just stunning, and back of cab fellatio is just badass.

    Ive always liked Faye's character, so Don and her is an interesting and welcome direction. She could bring out a better side of his character, and its good to see Don getting a bit of swagger back.

    Joan's attempts at keeping some sort of control are making her look like a bitter old bitch. Ive never really liked her character and would like to see Peggy continue to show her large ass up.
     
  5. Roxanne

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    I'm guessing I had a very different reaction just from being a girl. I didn't think it made her look like a bitter old bitch, although I'm sure that's what they were trying to get across: any time a girl stands up for herself in the work place, she gets labeled a humorless bitch (as she so nicely put it at the end). Even though Peggy had good intentions, Joan was right. If Peggy fights her battles, Joan just looks like a powerless chump, which is a huge blow when you work your ass off to keep a company afloat.

    Joey's comment was completely off the wall and just downright horrible, and then the picture to follow immediately after? What else was she supposed to do?

    I think the issue of sexual harassment in the workplace has been treated as something whimsical and cute up until this episode, and now they're showing the darker side of it, and how it really effects women.
     
  6. El Tee

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    Slate.com has a pretty good discussion between 3 or 4 bloggers after each episode, and one of them pointed out a pretty interesting distinction between how Peggy handled Joey and how Joan intended to handle him; Joan's plan was to have lunch with one of the clients and presumably use her feminine wiles to convince him to get rid of the little prick, whereas Peggy confronted him directly (admittedly after tattling to Don). They also noted that if you go back to the pilot episode, set 5 years prior, Peggy Olson's style, demeanor, and attitudes have all changed remarkably while Joan is dressing and carrying herself almost identically the way she did back at Sterling Cooper.

    If the underlying theme of "Mad Men" is to show how much society was changing during the early Sixties, then Joan Holloway is being set up as an old guard that is stuck in her old ways. That being said, Peggy does still still need to have some pretty basic and simple shit explained to her every now and Joan is usually the one to do it, so I say it's a good thing she's still around.
     
  7. Kubla Kahn

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    Yup. They did it with alcohol and now have shown the darker side of the sexual harassment. The discussion El Tee brought up is interesting. When I heard Joan say she was going to manipulate the situation by charming another client I felt that would be all wrong. She would have basically used her feminine persuasion, something that feeds the general negative stereotype of the age, and would not have addressed the issue at hand. Even if Peggy is labeled a humorless bitch and Joan loses some face I think the clear message of non tolerance is a stronger case to make. Do you think these guys would have fallen in line if he would have been transferred to another company? Fuck up and you are out on your ass.
     
  8. Roxanne

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    The trouble is that women are trying to integrate in the workplace. At this stage, firing Joey just makes it seem like women have no place there, not that they deserve some modicum of respect.

    To be clear, I think what Peggy did was great, and Joey was a little shit who got what was coming to him. But alternatively, she completely undermined whatever semblance of authority Joan had left. Now it's patently obvious that Joan isn't the one who gets to call the shots, but Peggy can. That's what I think Joan was referring to when she said Peggy was standing up for herself and not for her (or whatever the line was).

    Either way, I love Joan. She is having a much harder time than Peggy precisely because she was so good at the old way, whereas Peggy was terrible. I'm still counting on her to be the one who pushes women's rights in the future.
     
  9. WickedBitch

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    What was in the letter that guy brought Peggy? I missed that part. I cam back right when he promised never to contact her again.
     
  10. Parker

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    It was a political poem thing about SCDP, Peggy and the whole corporations being evil thing. She knew if it was published it would get her fired and she wanted him to never show it again.
     
  11. WickedBitch

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    Wasn't he trying to mend fences from the night before? What ever made him think that shit was gonna fly? I saw where she was adamant about him destroying it but if I were her, I never would have given it back.
     
  12. JWags

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    This was a pretty decent episode, Hamm was ace per usual. His combination of stern office politics while managing being "fatherly" with Sally was pretty well done. The scene with Sally making him french toast was awesome.

    "Thats rum, read labels."
     
  13. El Tee

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    Ida Blankenship
    1898 - 1965
    Rest in peace, you old hellcat.

    I have to say, after two weeks of heavy this kind of lighthearted episode was a refreshing change of pace. Pete Campbell had about two seconds of screen time again this week, but watching him try to lift Blankenship out of her chair while the clients were looking the other way was fantastic. Even better was Joan telling them to use Harry's afghan to cover the corpse.
     
  14. JWags

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    I forgot the best line of the episode:

    "I would have my secretary do it, but she's dead."

    Just awesome. Harry complaining that his grandma made the afghan was also priceless. Its been awhile since Mad Men made me laugh.
     
  15. Roxanne

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    "A flightless bird, three letters."
    "Emu."
    "But it starts with an L..."
    "Like hell it does."

    Just when I was starting to enjoy having her around, she dies. Darn old people.
     
  16. audreymonroe

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    I loved this episode. The French toast scene made me laugh so hard. Which is good, because the beginning of that scene was creeping me out. Was I the only one who felt like they were setting it up so that Sally was acting like a wife or girlfriend would? I was so glad when they had the comic relief that reminded us all that she was still just a little girl who couldn't tell the difference between rum and maple syrup.

    Also, so happy that Joan and Roger had sex in an alley.
     
  17. WickedBitch

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    $500 bucks says Joan is pregnant. I'm calling it.



    Yes, I'm a huge retard. What's it to ya?
     
  18. Parker

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    I know some people from the old board and in general sort of hate sally and/or the actress, but she fucking nailed this part. I think Weiner is trying to get at the fact that Sally is probably trying to imitate wife/girlfriend, sort of a reverse Oedipus thing.* I'll fucking be damned too, she is making me feel like shit for all the daddy issues jokes and ways of thought.

    I also am coming to the conclusion that Don doesn't get women. He gets that if he does A, they do B, but I don't think he knows why. And for some reason, I don't know why, I'm loving Faye as a character, I'm loving Cara B playing her. I'm just happy every time she's on screen.

    Anyone else wonder how much time has elapsed between episodes? Don just dropped her off last week with "I'm not ready yet." Then starts this episode releasing the kraken on her ass and knocking over a lamp. I felt like there should have been a transition.




    *This is the most I've ever theorized about a show beyond the show and compared it to something else.
     
  19. WickedBitch

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    I think you guys are overthinking this. I didn't see it as anything more than Sally being a confused girl, that is swiftly becoming a pre-teen, who knows her mother is a succubus and is desperately trying to claw her way out of that home before the succubus rubs off on her. She is trying to make herself useful so he'll keep her around. What she needs to do is say to Don something like "Look, Dad, I hate the bitch and I know you know how it is. Let me move in here before she fucks up my head permanently." Sally probably won't though because this was the 60's and people just didn't talk about their feelings like that and unless she spells it out for him, he'll never read between the lines. "I hate it there." just doesn't do justice to how dire the situation is for Sally. And I believed her when she said she'd be good if he let her stay. At this point, she'll do anything to get out of that house.

    I'd love to see her go live with him! Boozing and philandering aside, Sally would be much better off emotionally getting the hell away from her harpy... I mean mother. The writers will never allow that shit though. If Sally lived with Don, there would be no reason to have Betty on the show any more.
     
  20. Rudolph

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    I'm not sure how/why people don't like Sally, but she was fantastic this episode. Typically I think most kids really can't act very well, but she was pulling the heartstrings of all of the office women (and myself) with her refusal to go back to Betty. I thought that was nicely done, as the show has been more woman-centric the past few episodes.