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Legalizing Marijuana... are we ready?

Discussion in 'All-Star Threads' started by Bong McPuffin, Nov 13, 2009.

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  1. Beefy Phil

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    I agree with you completely. I was speaking to the fact that an argument for legalization isn't going to be helped by showing people how much safer drugs will be as a result. The sympathy you and I might have for someone with a drug addiction isn't going to touch the heart of a more socially conservative element. As you said, the stigma attached to the problem is strong. Many people view addiction as weakness, or the result of poor choices, and the idea of aiding people who dug their own graves leaves a sour taste in a lot of mouths. And while I fully support the effort to treat these people, and can understand how beneficial it would be, I have to admit it's all secondary to my desire to see violent crime reduced and money saved.

    If you showed the public that decriminalization would get drug dealers off corners, and guns off the street, their eyes would light up. Tell them that it's a matter of civil liberty and individual freedom and they will turn their back on you. People aren't going to be aroused by talk of 'independence' or 'social consciousness', or other intangible concepts that cynicism usually trumps. People will be moved by self-interest and results they can see.
     
  2. Takoz

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    This is only based on anecdotal evidence, but it seems that younger kids are starting to get involved with weed more frequently.

    When I graduated high school a few years back, there was only 1 weed dealer in my graduating class, who happened to be one of my best friends. Nobody else sold, everyone came to him.

    Today? In that same high school, there is a countless number of people who sell and smoke. I don't know if this trend is specific to my area or if it's actually representative of a larger trend, but it's real either way. I don't know if this is relevant to legalization, but I thought it was interesting.

    I smoke every single day, usually multiple times a day. I also am close to being promoted at the job I've maintained for 3 years, and I'm pretty close to graduating from a tough university. And I play sports and do other active stuff to stay in shape. Many of my friends are very similar. We all love smoking weed, but it doesn't alter the other aspects of our lives in a negative manner.

    Of course I think it should be legal. But not because I use it all the time, but because I've still yet to see a convincing argument as to why it should remain illegal.
     
  3. slammy

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    Legalizing pot and making it commercially available would, in my opinion, erase a lot of the negative effects of smoking weed. All of that "gateway drug" stuff makes sense, but those who are vehemently anti-drug ignore the cause of this phenomenon. In my experience, the main reason people turn to harder drugs than pot is because that's what their dealer is carrying at the time. As someone who has done other drugs (like E), most of the time it's just because my dealer friend has some of it lying around. Also, making it illegal lumps it into the same category as all these other drugs: it's part of the same world. You don't go to a sushi restaurant and get convinced to buy a hot dog. If pot were legal and commercially sold this would not be such an issue, for the same reason drinking beer doesn't lead to smoking pot. It's not part of the same culture and it comes from a different source.

    Pot can be pretty bad for you, but it's not a whole lot worse than alcohol. Legalization and commercialization would allow for people to enjoy it while ensuring that enough restrictions are in place to bar people from being dumbasses about it (e.g. impaired driving, smoking around your kids, etc). It should be controlled the way cigarettes are (particularly here in Toronto where you can't smoke in any public indoor space). I think it's better to take a sort-of-bad thing and find ways to make it less impactful than to pretend that expunging it from society is at all effective.
     
  4. zzr

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    So we should not change the laws in order to maintain the status quo? You're way overestimating the size of the federal prison system. It doesn't even have 1/10 the number of employees as Target, and most drug crimes are tried in state courts. Even if you were lumping all of the U.S. prison systems together, the real effect of reducing the number of prison workers required is that they can then go and produce in other sectors of the economy instead of being a drain on its resources, just the same as the prisoners incarcerated on minor drug offenses. Money flowing through a particular sector of our economy doesn't automatically make that sector necessary or even beneficial. The prison system sucks money out of our economy that could be building wealth instead of corralling harmless potheads. You also have to make a distinction between fines and prison sentences. Fines are great for governments; prisons are huge drains on their budgets.

    You don't see the difference between raping someone and smoking a joint? In one case, there is a victim, while in the other there is not. Theft, rape, murder, assault, vehicular homicide, and child molestation are all crimes because they injure a victim. Doing drugs is a victimless crime, as is prostitution. A basic part of any government's reason for existence is to protect its citizens from each other. If you proclaim that Joe Blow in Baltimore can't smoke a joint at home after work, how the hell does that affect me?

    I've never touched any illegal drug and never will, regardless of future law changes. I'll beat my kids (figuratively - don't call DFCS) if they ever touch drugs just the same as I will if they use tobacco. The fact that I'm against their use doesn't mean I think we should use the power of the government to make people conform to my beliefs. If we legalize them, regulate them, and tax them, our world will be a better place. Crime will be reduced and the money in the underground economy will return to the mainstream, plus governments can stop spending so much on enforcement and incarceration. The obvious place to start is with marijuana.
     
  5. redbullgreygoose

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    That's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know about anyone else. But Heroin and Crystal Meth should be legalized.

    You don't. You let people make their own decisions and allow them to be responsible for the choices they make. It's not a government's job to tell a person what's good and bad for them as long as they don't hurt another individual except for (possibly) themselves.

    edit:

    Only because you're over the legal age limit where buying beer is legal. But for kids, it's easier to buy drugs then beer. With beer you have to find a source (a gas station or store), then depend on someone 21+ to purchase it for you. With drugs, you just find the source and make a purchase. The person selling drugs doesn't regulate their purchases to anybody. Furthermore, you put way too much credit in the job the DEA has done regulating marijuana sales. You don't have to find your friend's friend's next door neighbor's uncle to find marijuana. You say that, because it strengthens your argument. But you're wrong. Just yesterday I was sitting outside of my school's little convenience store and some kid I had never met before in my life offered to sell my Orange Kush for 20 dollars a gram.

    As Eminem puts it: Marijuana is everywhere, where was you brought up?
     
  6. shegirl

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    How about this spin, even if it is legalized illegal activity in the ways to obtain it will still be prevalent because people can avoid the tax. So these seedy people* you get it from whether they grow or not will, well, still be seedy I guess.

    Then what? What do you guys think about that angle on the topic? What should their punishment be?

    *I also think this is a rash generalization about those that smoke and/or sell. There are people from all walks of life that smoke, from high up professionals to the dude that pumps your gas. And yes, years ago I was a pothead.

    I'll end with something from Clueless:

    Cher: Are you talking about drugs?
    Tai: Yeah.
    Cher: Tai, how old are you?
    Tai: I'll be 16 in May.
    Cher: My birthday is in April and as someone older, can I please give you some advice? It is one thing to spark up a doobie and get laced at parties, but it is quite another to be fried all day.

    I can say with 100% certainty that when I was 16 if I had done it my Grandma would have kicked my ass. That was enough for me to Just Say No, until I met and moved in with an ex.
     
  7. Evildreams

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    I believe Marijuana should be legalized, first of all I would like to point out that I do not come from some Libertarian/Laissez-faire background and my parents do not differentiate between injecting Heroin and smoking pot, however I also study Criminology and I've seen the damage and trouble people get in for this victim-less crime. When you throw a person (who isn't a criminal) in jail for only smoking or selling pot, you are risking turning a pot user to a dangerous criminal. Furthermore when you take into account all the resources governments use to capture, take to court and imprison pot smokers/pusher you have to ask, why? Who are these people hurting?

    Marijuana as a gateway drug - This is completely ridiculous! People don't just wake up one morning and start smoking crack, if you use hard drugs (heroin, crack etc) you're an idiot, and you can't blame marijuana.

    I've already mentioned the fact that governments put a lot of resources into capturing, prosecuting pot users etc, by legalizing marijuana, you are freeing Law enforcements personal and enabling them to focus and solve the real crime.

    People can argue whether Marijuana is beneficial/detrimental to your health, however this is completely irrelevant to the "Should we legalize Marijuana" argument, Alcohol is a much worst drug than Marijuana, and even though it is detrimental to our health, consuming alcohol is still legal. Obviously driving after using Marijuana shouldn't be allowed but that's not a good reason to not legalize Marijuana. I think it's high time we legalize Marijuana!
     
  8. Robbie Clark

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    The argument people should make is for decriminalization over legalization. It's a tiny point, but has some significance. Instead of having a law on the books saying marijuana is legal and will be taxed, just repeal laws prohibiting marijuana usage, possession, and distribution. It could certainly be done at the federal level and left up to the states, which is how it is with alcohol and it works just fine. Not a lot of bootleggers anymore. And then those in Maine needn't worry about how people are punished for breaking the tax laws in Arizona, and vice-versa.
     
  9. Beefy Phil

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    People can and do make their own liquor, beer and wine. Most don't, because of the massive inconvenience of the process, and because high-quality products are available at several places in their immediate area. Even fewer of these home distillers actively distribute their wares for profit. Why shouldn't the same apply to marijuana? Sure, more people might grow their own plants than will make bathtub gin, but it still requires a lot of time and effort and expensive equipment to produce the kind of plant that a multi-million dollar company would be churning out daily. If I can walk to the corner store and pick up a bag of Northern Lights at a severely reduced price, why would I waste my time in my backyard with a Lil' Stinker Botany Set?

    That said, the same penalties should apply to illegal weed distributors that apply to illegal bootlegging operations. If a license is available to make your operation righteous, the right thing to do is pay for the license. If not, deal with the consequences.
     
  10. $100T2

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    I think it should be decriminalized.

    I think it should be available via prescription for people with a legitimate medical need for it, and I'm not talking about back spasms and anxiety, I'm talking terminal cancer, MS, that type of thing. I think the current arrangement of getting prescriptions needs to be changed from the complete and total joke it is now.

    And I'm a LOT closer to this debate than I'd like to be (and probably closer to it than most of you), it's actually been kinda shoved down my throat. No, I have never smoked pot, nor do I intend to. I've heard every single argument for and against, and all the statistics. As a future health care practitioner, I won't prescribe it for my patients. I'm still going to encourage my children not to do it, or smoke cigarettes, or do anything else that could jeopardize their future.
     
  11. redbullgreygoose

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    Wait. What?
     
  12. TheCapn

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    If the legalization advocates want to take this matter seriously, they should all start wearing suits and should write their congressman on a regular basis. A lot of the guys on capitol hill are old school and they like letters. The more well thought out and carefully constructed the letter, the better. Sure it won't change things right away but it'll do the movement a lot better than if you spend your time smoking a joint while wearing a Grateful Dead shirt at some bullshit legalization rally.

    I no longer smoke marijuana but I still don't like the fact that it's illegal. I think for the most part it's fairly harmless so long as you do it in the privacy of your own home. I'd be willing to vote on a measure that legalizes pot but I don't really feel too strong one way or the other. If the legalization advocates want to make some headway, they're going to have to learn how to play hardball politics. They're going to have to forcefully get the legislation that they want, passed. No one is going to just give it to them.
     
  13. clkx88

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    I don't see a point to this thread, there is no counter argument to the idea of legalizing marijuana. Denying the validity of marijuana legalization is akin to holocaust denial in the most literal sense. Commercially selling it would undercut the business being done on the streets. I know this, I was doing the business. Weed would be regulated and safer, and there would be an insane amount of money saved between not incarcerating and not patrolling. I have yet to hear a single argument against legalization that wasn't complete psychobabble and preachy bullshit. After having read the entirety of this thread I can still make the same claim.

    As for the driving discussion, I can talk about this from personal experience as well. I wish there was a way to tie the idea of driving under the influence of marijuana with one's IQ. I've seen my friends get lost in a damn parking lot because of a joint. Me on the other hand, If I'm driving more than two hours I like to burn a blunt behind the wheel. It makes the trip go faster. And in traffic, I drive a lot more calm and defensively if I'm a little high. Sober I'm pretty mad behind the wheel, and if people aren't doing at least 5 over the speed limit I am on that ass and honking. I do not think that THC necessarily impairs one's ability to drive.
     
  14. Benzilla

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    Just curious: How much do you think legal weed would cost?
     
  15. clkx88

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    If legal weed cost $300 an ounce, which is easily feasible at this point in time, it would be undercutting every dealer selling small sacks that isn't in a place where there isn't some form of legalization already.
     
  16. Robbie Clark

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    Why would completely legal weed cost any more than cigarettes? Hell, it could be as cheap as lettuce.
     
  17. bucketheader

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    I smoked and sold weed for years. I quit my sophomore year in college.

    With that said, how would those of you who are anti-weed who have yet to "inhale" feel if a bunch of assholes who had never consumed an alcoholic drink were spearheading a prohibition movement? And they were succeeding?

    You would say, "hey shitheads, you don't get it.. it's not that bad.. cause.. you don't get it.."

    It's hard to put into words-- unless you've had a long relationship with marijuana you can't really construct an opinion about it. I see successful people who smoke everyday.. and also shitheads who smoke everyday. I see successful people who don't smoke. I see shitheads who don't smoke. Weed will not make a strong person weak.. it might make a weak person weaker.

    Here's an interesting notion that just came to me-- how many people who have smoked weed are anti-legalization? Are the vast majority people in opposition individuals who have never smoked or never more than a few times?
     
  18. maybe

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    Cannabis will never be legal because stoners are too lazy to fight for it.

    Kidding... or not.
     
  19. clb

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    I feel like most of the relevant points have been made, but I'd like to reiterate that marijuana is simply less harmful to your body than alcohol and tobacco. The fact that those two drugs are legal, while marijuana is not, is simply ridiculous. Personally, I am actively trying to drink less and smoke marijuana more because I'm tired of feeling awful all weekend and most Mondays. There is no marijuana hangover, and that right there should be enough to prove that it is not as bad for you as alcohol.
     
  20. pincinelly

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    With regards to the concerns over people driving while high, here in New Zealand a law has just come into effect that allows police officers to ask someone to perform a field sobriety test and blood test to determine if there is any THC in the bloodstream.
     
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