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Legalizing Marijuana... are we ready?

Discussion in 'All-Star Threads' started by Bong McPuffin, Nov 13, 2009.

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  1. Bong McPuffin

    Bong McPuffin
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    This is a topic I hold dear to my heart.

    I have managed to dodge the legal system personally so far, but I have seen many of my friends, people that have never been violent, never been a "criminal" in the sense of rape/murder/robbery/etc... but some of them have spent months in jail for merely possessing marijuana, and a few have even seen years of actual prison time for selling it.

    These are people that were only selling to make ends meet, like pay rent, buy diapers, maybe have a decent car for themselves. Like I said, non-violent offenders.

    Focus:

    Are we, as a country, ready to legalize and shed the stigma of marijuana? If not legalize, maybe decriminalize the possession and sale of marijuana? That means make it a ticketable offense if you're under a certain weight limit, like an ounce. If not, please elaborate on why marijuana should stay illegal.

    DIGG
     
  2. Supertramp

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    Focus: I've been raised in a libertarian household. My father seemed simple enough on every topic, including drugs, abortion and religion: It's your body/mind/soul do with it as you please, leave me out of it.

    I've gotten high a handful of times and enjoyed it, some of my friends are classic 'lazy' potheads, others get high and function at a reasonable level regardless. My point is that it's a drug doesn't have an outward, societal, effect any worse than Alcohol/Tobacco - which should definitely stay legalized - so why should it be considered any more harmful? Would legalizing it usher the new world utopia that every stinkin' hippy lobbies for? I doubt it. Would it reduce the horrific economic and social strain on every poor community? Most likely.

    I think the scientific debate is boring and obfuscated; the more interesting debate is what everyday normal people who do or don't get high have to say about it.

    Remember: Politicking and debate are different. If you're going to respond by posting your opinion and why you think that way, it's fine.
     
  3. Samr

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    I remember reading an article a while back that claimed, to paraphrase, that "marijuana has not been legalized because there exists no accurate "field test" for it." Obviously, it should be illegal for someone to drive while impaired, be it through alcohol, thc, or other drugs. But currently there's no way for authorities to accurately prove to a court that a subject was under the influence of marijuana at the time of arrest/stop/whatever.

    I have smoked marijuana, and it was great. Absolutely loved it, and if I could smoke it legally, the benefit would be worth the health effects (though there's many ways to mitigate those). That being said, I don't smoke it currently because it is illegal, it requires really shady operations to get it, and it's expensive. Simple as that. I don't want to end up in jail, nor do I want to deal with dealers or spend large amounts of money on something that doesn't justify the cost.

    That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if it was legalized in the next 15-30 years. I look forward to getting high on my death bed. That'd be awesome.

    This should be a really interesting topic. I'm glad y'all allowed it.
     
  4. kuhjäger

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    I am of a similar mindset, if you want to do it, do it.

    I have never once touched weed. Ever. After watching my sister's nosedive once she started on weed, it was bad. She might as well have been an extra from Reefer Madness, as she was the classic downfall. Once she started smoking it, she turned to acid, coke, E, and ended up in the hospital after an OD once, and then another time after a bad reaction with a medicine she was taking.

    And I drink a lot, and that is enough for me.

    So do whatever you want as long as it doesn't affect the people around you.

    I once was varnishing some wood at my apartment, and a neighbor was doing laundry, but refused to walk by an 8 oz open can of varnish while carrying her baby in her arms. Yet she would smoke in her house, and reeked of weed when she refused to go by the can. What the fuck is up with that shit?

    Nota bene, I went to UCSC. What Rolling Stone called the Most Stoned Campus on the planet. I was around the drug culture a lot, and while most people you can ignore when they talk about it, there were some who just spouted the most asinine shit about weed, it was unbelievable.

    After hearing that it might help glaucoma patients with the pain , or helping cancer patients, people on campus started claiming that it cured glaucoma, and was a treatment for cancer.

    Maybe I am off here, but something that helps alleviate symptoms is not medicine. It is a therapy. Stop calling it medicinal marijuana, implying that it cures something. If it actually cured something other than an aversion to Doritos, fine. But it doesn't. And that is what people push it as in Cali as a reason for legalizing it.

    And you shouldn't push for legalization on a false or misguided pretense. Just convince people of the truth that it is relatively harmless, much like alcohol can be in moderation.
    Oh, and if you tell me that stoned driving is safe (which I have heard A LOT), I will beat you where you stand.
     
  5. Woody

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    I've never smoked in my entire life. I saw a great documentary that does a good deal of explaining the history and current status of Marijuana prohibition, The Union: The Business behind getting high and since then I've wanted to really see what it really is all about.

    Focus I've grown up into being a libertarian so my stance for the most part as always been to legalize and to tax it, I think it would be a small boost to the economy that we could definitely use.

    I think the worst part is the media not shedding any light towards the numerous medical studies that have been done on what harm Marijuana does to your body. When compared to alcohol and cigarettes I certainly think Marijuana is safer out of the three.
     
  6. Guy Fawkes

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    I think we'll see it legalized in my lifetime.

    Currently in MA it's a $100 fine for possession up to an ounce which makes it easy to travel with it.

    The perception of marijuana is changing as well as we're seeing it make appearances in more and more television shows, and movies, where it isn't necessarily the central theme but rather just something people are doing, like having a beer.

    I can see California legalizing it and putting a tax on growing it and making billions of dollars from it. As soon as that happens other states will follow suit to cash in on the windfall. Personally I'd turn a few hundred acres of family farmland in western MA into marijuana fields the day it's completely legalized in the state.
     
  7. kuhjäger

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    If you were truly a libertarian, you wouldn't be wanting to tax it.
     
  8. Sam N

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    Certainly not, but it is safer than drunk driving. In fact, pretty much everything about it is safer than it's alcoholic counterpart. Maybe that's why I rarely smoke but drink everyday. I like to live...dangerously.

    To echo everyone else, it's your shit to fuck up in whatever way you want, you should be able to burn a little fuckin' dope if you please.
     
  9. Dcc001

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    I am 100% for the legalization of all drugs (and prostitution, too, but that's off topic). And before anyone claims my beliefs are due to my habits, let me admit that I'm a giant drug virgin. The only 'drug' I've ever used was alcohol, and if I sat here and thought about it, I could list the times in my life that I've been drunk. I'm almost 30.

    All drugs should be made legal because:
    1. They could subsequently be regulated. No more cocaine cut with rat poison or E made with god-knows-what. It could be regulated, the concentration controlled and the bad additives eliminated.
    2. It would cut the prison population down by an astronomical amount. Imagine if no one could get arrested for using, transporting or dealing. Who would be in jail? Money saved, big time.
    3. It could be taxed. And believe you me, I would be all for taxing this shit out of it. As much as I love the nicotine taxes we have in Canada, I'd support a drug tax that made cigarettes look cheap.
    4. People who are going through addiction could be more easily reached with treatment programs. If you had to go to Shoppers Drug Mart to buy your cocaine, it would be an excellent place for the pharmacist, or some other trained personnel, to talk to you and try to get you off the drugs. Much better than trolling the streets after dark, trying to find junkies to save.

    There are many arguments against this, the most vocal being some version of "gateway drugs that lead to society spinning off its axis into chaos." I have intimate knowledge of addiction, and I'll say this: an addict is an addict. Whether or not it's legal is of no consequence. People who are prone to drug progression will progress regardless of whether the drugs are legally available or not. And personally speaking, I agree with Bill Mahar: if they made heroin legal tomorrow, I wouldn't be rushing out to use it. Most people choose to do drugs because they don't want to; not because they're illegal.
     
  10. manbehindthecurtain

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    I think the "Field Test" concept is a very valid point in this discussion. Unlike alcohol, which is acutely detectable in definable amounts, I do not believe there is a way for a police officer to prove, scientifically, that a driver is under the influence of marijuana, and is impaired, in a way that can stand up in court.

    I for one, would be in favor of the following "trade" - de-criminalize marijuana in exchange for the adoption of alcohol-ish sobriety rules and regulations: if you are pulled over at a traffic stop with any trace of marijuana or related paraphernalia on you, you must face the same repercussions that someone over the legal limit of alcohol would have. If you can pass an immediate THC test, fine, go free, but any trace of THC in your system when pulled over for suspicion of DUI, then deal with the the consequences.

    I believe that people should be able to get high in their own homes without being prosecuted, and truthfully, I think it is hypocritical in our society that alcohol is marketed, and touted as a social lubricant and rite of passage the way it is in advertising, when it can be just as acutely destructive as any amount of marijuana.
     
  11. kuhjäger

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    To hell with anyone who thinks like that. I don't give a fuck if it is safer than driving while talking on the cell phone eating a burger while getting head.

    If you are impaired in any way while behind the wheel, you are putting other people at risk because of what you are doing, or have done at your house before going out.

    I may be speaking from a somewhat biased standpoint as I lost my track coach in high school to a drunk driver, a close cousin to a drunk driver, and nearly lost a cousin and an uncle at the same time to a douche who was texting while buzzed who ran a red light.

    But enough derailing the thread.

    Legalize it, but enact strict rules on driving while impaired/distracted. People who preach, legalize it, it is a victimless crime are absolutely right. But when you get behind the wheel, you can affect other people, so it has to be regulated in that way.

    (BTW, the people who were driving the car that killed my coach and cousin were waaaay above the limit. By like, .05 full disclosure)
     
  12. Mexicutioner

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    When the fuck are we going to make marijuana legal already? Michael Phelps...greatest Olympic athlete of all-time, pothead. Tim Lincecum, 2008 Cy Young Award winner...pothead. What does it take for these anti-marijuana people to start realizing that marijuana has no real adverse effects on you?

    And the propaganda that these anti-marijuana people spit at you is such bullshit. Take for instance, this study, which says marijuana can increase your risk for heart attacks.:
    http://www.eitb24.com/noticia/en/B24_98126

    Excerpt from the article
    The marijuana users in the study averaged smoking 78 to 350 marijuana cigarettes per week, based on self-reported drug history, the researchers said. The researchers said the active ingredient in marijuana, known as THC, seems to overstimulate marijuana receptors in the liver, leading to overproduction of the protein.

    350 joints per week? Who the fuck are these people? How is it even humanly possible to smoke 350 joints per week? That's the equivalent of smoking two and a half packs of cigarettes a day, who has the ability to handle this?

    Smoking that many joints a day, it isn't the fucking marijuana that is giving these people heart problems. It is the pounds of Doritos and Funyons and Dollar Menu shit that is giving them heart problems.

    350 joints a week? 350 of anything a week is going to be bad for you. 350 bottles of water a week would be bad for you. 350 showers a week would be bad for you. And the sad thing is, I bet you people are reading this bullshit and actually believing it! I bet you this bullshit is in the most recent DARE Program pamphlet about marijuana. Why does it seem like some scientists are among the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet?

    I want to punch whoever did this study 350 fucking times in the groin, it makes me so mad.
     
  13. iczorro

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    I believe it's Daniel Tosh who said in his routine, "I think we should legalize marijuana... so all the stoners have nothing to talk about anymore."
     
  14. Sam N

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    I agree with you completely. I was just trying to suggest how stupid it is that alcohol is legal but pot isn't.
     
  15. JoeCanada

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    I don't even know what's left to debate about this. All the anti-legalization arguments I've heard are weak at best, and are often based on ridiculous propaganda.

    The arguments that piss me off the most are the "41% of D students smoke marijuana regularly" and "82% of crack addicts say they smoked marijuana first" kinds of things. I hate those because they sound like they make sense, but it's just cause and effect mixed up. Stupid, lazy kids--who have always been stupid and lazy--are more likely to smoke pot. Pot did not cause their poor grades. And yeah, I'm sure most hard drug users did start with pot--that makes sense too. Pot is the logical place to start your drug career. However, there are plenty of people who are happy with what pot does to them and don't feel the need to try other drugs (me). It doesn't MAKE them want to try fucking heroin.

    EDIT: Not really about legalization, but you guys have to see this:

    Anti-pot commercial


    Joe Rogan making fun of it
     
    #15 JoeCanada, Nov 16, 2009
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  16. ghettoastronaut

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    I think society collectively is ready. The popular support surely must exist; I get the sense that no serious politician will take the initiative to legalize it because legalizing marijuana is seen as such a fringe issue that it would undermine their credibility, take away support from social conservatives who support the status quo, and hurt that "electability" factor. I guess as long as people freak out over politicians admitting to using drugs in the past, and as long as drug use still remains an issue of right and wrong (as it seems universally portrayed to high school students), nobody will be able to breach the issue.

    As for the medicinal issue, I don't want to bore up the thread, but a lot of weed's medicinal properties are over-rated. It doesn't work very well for glaucoma; tolerance to this effect rises rapidly, and you'd need to be stoned all the time. The most reliable sources I have heard on the subject have told me it is not a very powerful painkiller. Its use as a medicine is limited by its inconvenient (or convenient, depending on your perspective) side effects, which kind of make it hard to go about your day. That's not to say it has no use, or that the issue of its usefulness for medicine should have any bearing on whether it should be legal or not.
     
  17. Benzilla

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    I don't know if I'm a weenie but I find it pretty hard to drive stoned, it scares the crap out of me.

    Are we ready for legalization? The question is if we can even get there; of course the more progressive states will vote for it but the more "conservative" states will still try (and most likely, succeed) in killing any bill that comes to congress. If it actually become an issue that's discussed in higher profile venues than Digg and your school's NORML/SSDP chapter I think we'll see a resurgence of the call for "a generation without a crutch." Now, keep in mind that this is a projection for the next five or so years.

    Let's place this board's median age at an arbitrary "mid-20s" for a longer projection. I think that by time we're 50 and our generation is solidly running things there may be a chance. The only thing I don't know about is how the super conservative movement of the last couple of years is going to evolve and if there's going to be a blowback from all the kids being born around now hating their repressive, hypocritical (more than usual) upbringings.

    I don't smoke a much as a lot of people I know do so I don't have the same kind of stake in it. However, I think the claim that sales will bring billons of dollars in tax revenue are a tad overstated. Sure, a lot of people will partake in the newly legalized weed at first but I think we'll see a drop-off like Amsterdam eventually. Those billions will drop to merely hundreds of millions which is still a ton of income that never existed.

    TL,DR version: I think that it could happen, just not within the next ten years.
     
  18. c_norris

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    Needs to happen already. It never happened before because some asshole named William Randolph Hearst decided weed cut into his paper profits. I want to back in time and knock some sense into that motherfucker.

    Seriously. Every argument is propped up by bullshit propaganda that people are too idiotic to see through. Come on, let people light up already Congrassholes!
     
  19. kuhjäger

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    Hey, did you hear? 9-11 was an inside job. And the moon landing was fake. Seriously dude. I have youtube videos to prove it.

    Look, if you are going to argue something, take this lesson from me, don't use conspiracy theories to try make a legitimate argument.
     
  20. Woody

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    To be honest I think a huge block to over come is the Pharmaceutical companies. I don't think they are all to pleased having something sold that gives very little set backs towards physical/mental health, helps out a bit in peoples battles with cancers etc, and something people can grow in their back yard, simply over the fact they cannot control the distribution of it.


    To finish quoting the end of the article

     
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