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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Juice, Jun 22, 2012.
So you were raised with corporal punishment? You turned out really well. How do you feel it negatively affected you?
Not every parental misstep irrevocably ruins a child for life. As I think both Aetius and I emphasized earlier, it's perfectly possible for the negative effects to be negligible in the long-run. I don't think it had much of an impact in terms of who I am today. I think it led me to view my father as something akin to a dictatorial strongman, but that feeling is kind of inseparable a child's immature exaggeration so I can't really say how strongly felt it was. What I can say, though, is that they were among my least effective punishments, because the visceral reaction was anger and fear rather than any sort of contrition.
My city has been taking huge steps to prevent bullying. The problem is that they are threading beads with no knot in the string. Kids will always bully because as long as they don't have a way to re-program free will kids will always be cruel, homophobic racist little shits. And don't tell me kids in your school weren't. They WERE.
The most frustrating thing about bullying is that fighting back against it is like dousing a fire with Everclear. Or better yet, it's like prison. The "tough guys" roam in packs picking on the weaker. If you don't stand up for yourself, you're a faggot. Stand there and take with a smile, you're a bitch. But if you dare fight back you get your ass kicked ten times worse, and if by some miracle you win the fight, you're a sucker-punching pussy that jumped them from behind. You. Can't. Win. End of story.
In public school, I had the largest buck teeth in human history and was teased relentlessly every single day of my life. One day I had enough, loaded up my lunchpail with rocks and cleaned the clocks of a few assholes giving me a hard time. The next day, I was "a tantrum-throwing psycho who can't tell when someone's kidding." Yeah, years of RELENTLESS cruelty and abuse was all just a "goof" after the gimp you live to humiliate relocates your eye socket. Teachers and the principal demanded an apology from me, and I refused. When they called my dad to get me in trouble at home, he high-fived me after he hung up the phone. One of the best days of my life.
Okay. But clearly, you're very passionate about this point and feel it was a mistake. How come? After all, you ended up becoming a respectful, intelligent, well-adjusted adult, right?
I edited my post since you quoted it, but because I don't feel the need to view myself as the definitive proof for it. I can hold that something is wrong, lazy, and ineffectual without needing my own life to be living proof. Parents make a million decisions, and overall outcome isn't reducible to single instances of punishment. On the balance, my parents seem to have done a decent job, but that doesn't validate each individual decision they made.
Moreover, as a form of punishment, it was exceeding rare in my childhood, so it would be surprising if it had been traumatizing.
But to use my experience, my emotional recollection suggests that it was not the right choice. My thoughts afterwards were not "I really shouldn't have done that" as much as they were "My dad is an asshole who thinks the mere fact that he is bigger than me makes it OK to hit me."
I'm the most guilty person on here for derailing, so mea culpa for that.
Let's steer things back towards bullying or the video and away from corporal punishment in early childhood development.
At least the bullying these kids did was mild; they could have done something very sinister and old-school, like give the old lady a haircut.
Dude, no one who posts on this board is well-adjusted.
Hey! I'm well adjusted. But then again. I have a perfectly normal, loving, and supportive child hood. So I could be a little out of touch with some of these issues from being a kid that people are mentioning.
... says the guy who walked in on his mother in the middle of an Eiffel Tower, more than once.
And, via rep, with the rebound:
Fuck, given the society we live in she should have beat their asses. She's old and looks out of shape so she probably would've injured herself while administering the beating and could've sued the parents of the kids for damages. Isn't that how things work nowdays?
I'm well adjusted. I adjust myself frequently.
I adjust at least every hour. Maybe more.
What's your problem?
I usually stay out of the serious threads because somebody usually states my opinion before I'm able to type it and I don't like piggybacking on peoples posts. However, I've just been watching my daughter sleep, so the parent in me is saying "STATE SOMETHING! THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN, OF WHICH YOU HAVE ONE!!!" so here goes:
As far as bullying is concerned, I believe that solving the problem on your own(and more importantly having the ability to solve the problem on your own) is instrumental to a child's growth. What I used to tell my little brother(after being bullied many times myself) is: Walk up to the bully and hit him. You don't even have to beat his ass, just hit him once in the face. Bullies are by definition cowards so the second they realize you are more trouble than they are worth 99.9% of the time they WILL back down. Hell, in my personal experience, half the time they try to be friends with you afterwards.
As far as corporal punishment is concerned, I've been giving this a lot of thought. My daughter is nowhere near that age yet(1.5 years), so thankfully I haven't had to make a decision yet. I know from my childhood that I was one of those children that "go to your room" did not work on. There's a difference between beating your kids(having the shit kicked out of you because you had the temerity to change the channel on the TV when your dad was drunk) and "beating" your kids(getting a paddle/belt/whatever mildly applied because you seriously fucked up). The ex and I don't agree on many things(read: 99% of everything), but the one thing we do agree on is not letting our daughter grow up to be a spoiled, entitled fuck. Hopefully we will teach her at an early age the value of respect. If not, we will deal with the situation accordingly. One thing I will NOT do is be like my father in that regard. He put more of an emphasis on fear of the ass kicking than the actual ass kicking itself(which admittedly worked for me). I just don't/can't see myself being that person. Only time will tell.
I hope this woman does the right thing and takes all the money people gave to her and sets up a program/scholarship fund for students. If she keeps even a penny for personal use, that's downright shameful.
One of the biggest things I think is lost in this whole ordeal is the kids were 13. Why do we think a group of 13 year old boys should have the maturity of a well adjusted adult?
Were they mean to this lady? Absolutely. Could it have been completely avoided if at least one of their parents instilled some empathy in their kid? Possibly. Is it all that uncommon for children who literally have the mentality of a 13 year old to make fun of things they think are weird? Not really. People on this site, some of the most vocal supporters of giving these kids a good pop on the ass, make regular statements deriding people for being different. Fuck, I will readily admit I do it as well. Even though I consider myself a well adjusted, compassionate adult, there are still times when something will rub me the wrong way and I'll instantly scoff and mentally belittle something because I don't "like" it.
Is bullying a problem? Yeah, sure. It's left over bullshit from pack animal mentality. Separate the perceived weak from the pack. In almost every case of bullying, this is the underlying factor. There is going to be little that stops it beyond a complete shift in group think or an evolutionary advancement.
As far as the spanking your child or corporal punishment or any other way you want to word it...come on... It's bullshit justification at it's finest. If there is no other way you can possibly teach a KID a lesson, other than inflicting physical pain on them to curb a behavior, that's just weakness. Regardless of how big or small the offense, there are better ways of teaching your child how to be a better person than at the end of a belt or even a swat on the wrist.
Are you fucking serious? Did you watch the video or read the woman's story? Are you really going to throw stones at a widow who's only child is dead, for taking a once in a lifetime window to retire from the generosity of strangers who gave freely to her, so that she could enjoy some of her golden years; because she didn't give that money to scholarship programs? It'd be unbelievably generous and amazingly big spirited of her to give that money to student scholarships. That would put her right in line for beatification as a saint. There's no POSSIBLE way to give her shit about taking that money and using it for an early retirement. After what she's been through, fuck anyone who gives that lady even the tiniest bit of shit for looking after herself instead of other people's children.
I think some people are overreacting about the kids being bullies. Clearly they are fuckhead kids and they deserve to be punished to the same extent that any bullying child does, which is to say enough to correct the behavior and no more. But that doesn't change the fact that there's no possible way to fault that lady for accepting the money and making her own life better. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.
We deride an entire generation for feeling entitled to things they haven't earned, yet being made fun of and having a tragic life is now grounds to accept $500,000 to enjoy the rest of your life?
She's a baby boomer, though. We are nothing if not consistent.
I read this an intense feeling of envy from Popped Cherries towards Karen Klein, especially with the flourish "downright shameful" at the end.
To me, it's "downright shameful" that Popped Cherries is angry and jealous towards an old woman because some nice people helped her out. That's an intensely selfish person who will begrudge anyone a piece of good luck or charity.
Frankly, what business is it of yours what Ms. Klein decides to do with the money? This money was freely donated by people who wanted Ms. Klein to enjoy what is left of her life. She can then do anything she wants with that money, (burn it, if she wants) regardless of what jealous idiots on the Internet think.
Yes. Because that was the intention of the people who gave to her. Otherwise, there would have been a scholarship fund set up in her name or charity that people could donate to. If I wanted to donate to charity, I'd do so. If I want to give someone a buck, I'd like them to have a buck.