There is a thirteen-year age gap between me and The Man. While this is my ultimate dream and generally the best thing ever, the one thing that we don't see eye to eye on at all is the topic of girls making out with girls. I grew up in a free girl love environment. Girls traded kisses like handshakes, because it has always been non-sexual and fun. You're drunk, you want to make out, but you don't want to go home with anyone: kiss your friend! While in high school it was certainly to get the attention of boys, over the years it just turned into a nice mouth hug to show your buddies how much you appreciate them, and whether guys were present or not became a non-issue. I still maintain it's a friendship thing, and most of the girls and guys I know who are in their 20s, whether they are married, in a long-term relationship or single, feel the same. The Man feels much differently. His rule is that if he is present and involved, making out with girls is acceptable. If he's not around, it's cheating. And he is adamant that he is not out of line, despite me having never heard anything like this before and only knowing people who are okay with it. Then I realized just maybe I'm only talking to hippie swingers, and maybe other people felt differently. FOCUS: Girls making out with girls. Is it cheating? Are there limits on it? What am I missing? ALT FOCUS: Relationship compromises you might not understand fully but you do them anyway because love is about not leaving people out of threesomes.
I think I have to agree with your man on this one. If it's not sexual, then what's the point? If I'm there then I'm down like a hashbrown, but otherwise I would feel like it's behind my back. I've already slept with half of futurewife's friends anyway before we got together, so it would depend on the situation and person entirely. Keep in mind if he's 13 years older, that means he's probably pushing 40? He might be looking for slightly different things in the relationship. At least that's the way it was when I've seen the situation reverse of a 28 year old guy and a 40 year old chick. Bump. Edit: Also everyone - this is how you suggest a thread. One or two sentences without a clear focus probably wont get you bumped.
Sorry, Roxanne, going to have to side with your Man on this one. I'm 42. The whole 'girl on girl' thing wasn't what it is today. But beyond that, you are sharing a part of your sexuality with someone else, the gender doesn't really matter. That's what I'd react to, and that's what your Man is probably reacting to. There's a sense of 'gee, aren't I enough' if he's not around, plus, the fact that you feel the need to get some sexual interaction when he's not around probably makes him worry that you'd cheat on him with a guy (not saying you would, just saying he might think that). Whereas if he's around, it's all above board, and it's about you guys together, as opposed to you separately. For me personally at this age? If I were single, I doubt I'd be in a committed relationship so this wouldn't come up.
The part you're missing is that your partner says he isn't comfortable with it. At the end of the day that's what matters. If The Husband isn't comfortable with me doing something like that, I should respect that boundary, because I respect him and our relationship. That boundary doesn't hurt me. It isn't taking away any of my freedoms. It isn't prohibitive of my education, self betterment, or money making. It's a sexual boundary that we discussed and should respect.
Focus: It's sort of how you parse it in your own personal relationship. Personally, I've never been around girls who share mouth kisses like handshakes, but damn does it sound intriguing.
Roxanne continues to be this magical fairy that exists in a land so very close, but so far away. Roxanne, I have a very diverse group of friends and constantly am meeting new people. Never ever have I seen that type of friendship exist. Lots of faux lesbian talk and jokes, but never casual mouth kisses. Maybe not even handholding. I think the most I've seen soberly between friend is cuddling in bed, but it wasn't prolonged. Overall I fully support the notion, but I think it's hard to get over the fear of that person deciding they like option 2 better and leaving. It has popped up from Jerry Springer all the way to actual TV/Dramas, movies, and pop culture overall. Straight girls just popping up and going lesbian, once in awhile that straight girl had a boyfriend/husband that was just left in the wake. Now for me I think I wouldn't be bothered if my gf went out on a trip, and had a one night stand with a girl. I think the continued communication over time would be worrisome. Just like her hanging out with a dude a lot, I'd be like "What's this person really trying to get out of this?" Also, to hit the focus directly, if it was "We went out, and I made out with Cindy because I was a little tipsy and that's it." Okay, cool. Even if it escalated a bit, cool. But if somehow it starts cutting into my action, that's when we definitely run into a problem. But just making out for funsies? Really not a huge problem, especially if this leads to a 3some.
Yeah where the fuck are these women hanging out? None of my friends try this hard. My girl person can do whatever she pleases. I'm not her boss. She is somewhat kind of, sort of, actively trying to find a girl hookup because that is something she feels she needs to do. It does not intimidate me or make me jealous. I'm secure enough to trust my position with her. In fact, it turns me on. However, what would irritate me is imbalance. If she began to consistently see this hypothetical hookup, or deny me any kind of access to their bedroom shenanigans, then I'd have words. I like to think she is empathetic enough, actually gives a shit about my feelings, that she knows where the limit is. I'm too old to play "Me Games," let some dumb kid deal with that nonsense. You know who you are dating and who your are not dating. If you're a couple, be a couple. I find it hard to believe, Roxanne, you have never encountered a man who expects his girlfriend to be monogamous. If someone's sense of identity hinges on their bi-curious or bisexual proclivities, then perhaps they should go back to dating like minded people. Before this thing turns into a "well, why can't they respect MY choices?" back and forth pissing match, remember trying to change people to suit your sensibilities is retarded. Quit before the joint bank account happens.
Shimmered pretty much nailed it, but to add to what she said... Is it cheating? It is if it violates the agreements you guys have. He's uncomfortable with it, he'd rather you didn't make out with people other than him. This is not uncommon. Are you ok with that? Is making out with your friends a price you're willing to pay to be with him? Is tolerating it a price he's willing to pay? Have that open conversation. If you don't care and he *does* care, than just stop doing it. If it's really important to you to be able to kiss other girls (It's ok for these things to be important) then you communicate that and you guys either find a place in the middle, break up, or live in tension and grumpiness. There's no objective standard here, it's all subjective to your specific relationship and agreements. For example, if I kiss another girl right now, I'm cheating. If I do it one second after clearing it with my wife, I'm not. And vice versa. Our rules involve asking each other first. Your rules might wind up similar or might be stricter or more lax. Whatever leaves you both happy and comfortable. And, ultimately, if there's no set of agreements where both parties are happy and comfortable (even if it's not 100% their bestest preference) then you move on to other people. In this case, over some playful friend kissing, I doubt it'll go that far, but the principles here apply across the spectrum from snuggling to 17 person orgies and beyond.
If my wife came home and told me she had just made out with a girl I would not say anything until I was done fucking her and then I would tell her that I was proud of her and take her to dinner.
It's called Portland. Also, to be clear, we've already had this conversation, and I have agreed to his tragic and life-changing terms. Luckily, despite being younger than him, I'm old enough to know that if I really love him, I will respect his weird, alternative lifestyle choices. This research is now purely for science. Edit: Also, I have never been in a relationship! And all the relationships I have seen up until now have included girls making out as a welcome addition, so this is new to me.
For quantifiable research, we might need to have photographic evidence of this behavior. Good science is documentation. Of girls making out. With each other. With good lighting.
Sorry, it was in a pool hall, the lighting is shit. And if it had been any better, I would have known I was about to be in a porno.
I also grew up kissing my female friends. It started in late middle/early high school, partially because making out is fun and partially because attention. There was a short period of time that I thought I might like girls, but as it turns out I have a pretty strong preference for the boys when it comes to actually having sex. But that doesn't take away from the fact that kissing girls is fun, and boobs are fun, too. Before Boyfriend, I was never in a relationship serious enough to worry about whether kissing other girls constituted cheating. He I were long-distance for 6 months of the first year we were together, and before he left, I made a sort-of joke about how I'd just make out with my girl friends while he was away. He made it clear that this was not ok, and that there was to be no making out with anyone who wasn't him, so I don't make out with girls anymore. Although who's to say I'd still be making out with my friends now anyways, since that was nearly 5 years ago.
I've seen Portlandia, I know where you're from. For the record, my statement wasn't calling you out, I just wish my girlfriend made out with some of her friends once in awhile. Well, actually, I'd be okay with two of them. She has a lot of unattractive friends.
I think it's a lot more than good science. Such a beautiful sapphic scenario is what the Pope thinks about when he jerks off. Anyone who doesn't see beauty in that has more screwed-up sexual issues than Andy Dick. I, personally, don't care. But that's me, I've always seen girls kissing as the way Roxanne described it but at the same time her guy makes a completely justifiable point. This is something that varies couple-to-couple, or person-to-person.
That show is a lie! Well, a sort of lie. It's eerily spot on sometimes. BUT ALSO A LIE! This is what I'm curious about right here, though. You're fine with it, some aren't. For the people who consider it cheating, what's up? Is it possessiveness? Or have I just finally run into the 'some people like monogamy, some people don't' thing?
My future wife used to kiss girls all the time in college. It was a huge turn on for me but it wasn't anything sexual for her. It never bugged me and now that we're swingers it especially doesn't bother me. Even if we didn't become swingers the act of her fucking another woman doesn't fall into the cheating category to me. To me cheating is having sexual relations with the opposite sex while trying to hide it from their primary partner. Sex between a man and a woman: cheating Sex between a man and a man: not cheating Sex between a woman and a woman: not cheating If she came home late from work and her excuse is because she went south on some chick in the hospital bathroom after her shift I'd high five her and ask for details for my spank bank.
If someone categorizes their partner disapproving of that as "possessiveness," then that person might not be ready for a relationship. Your latter point is what it is. Some are into monogamy, some arent. You (as in everyone) just better make sure their mate agrees with your perspective.
I'm not sure if "possessiveness" was a poorly chosen word on your part or if that's actually what you meant, but I'm not sure it's a fair characterization. Why is it different from making out with guys? It's just a "mouth hug" with a guy. What's the difference? I think how I felt about this issue would change based on the specific relationship, but I can understand why he might be uncomfortable when you're engaging in what is basically a sexual activity without him around. You might not feel that way about it, but some people might not think blowjobs are cheating either and it doesn't mean their SO's are possessive for disagreeing. Kissing is romantically and sexually charged.
I've had a few girlfriends that were bi and this never bothered me in the least. Maybe it's because I knew going in that this was their thing, I dunno. It could also be that I'm just really not one to get jealous or possessive. You want to go have dinner with your ex? Cool, have fun. Just don't sneak around my back doing it. Of course, this apparent apathy on my part has killed a few relationships too. An actual conversation one night in a bar: Girl: That guy's looking at me Me: Cool Girl: HE'S LOOKING AT ME AGAIN! Me: The fuck you want me to do about it? Girl: Make him stop. So I invited him over to our table and bought him a beer. I guess that wasn't the response she'd hoped for.