Okay, the way I understand it is that The Tonight Show was promised to Conan at a certain date regardless of Jay's plans. Before Johnny Carson I am too young, but it seems as if a precedent was started by Johnny whereby he hand picked his replacement and retired on his own terms. Jay, not given this choice. Not a huge fan of Jay's (as other's have stated, I prefer Letterman), but from the knowledge I have it seems that Jay was given the dirty side of the underwear of the deal here. Conan, I just don't care for you. If you think that your hair is a gimmick, you need to find a new one. Personally, if Jay was to give up The Tonight Show, it is "Mr. Wick" that I would rather watch. I find Colin Ferguson the only legitimately funny of the group. Time for another beer. ps: Bring back Arsenio Hall. Woof, Woof, Woof. lol
I call Leno a hack because of this clip. Personally, I don't really hate him, I thought he was funny and he still can be, but this clip and the more recent one where he tries to explain the situation seem to contradict each other in a few spots. He said he would retire and that only Carson could do it into his 60s, and here he is taking the show back. I don't really think he's necessarily an asshole for it, but I do think it would have been classy had he turned down NBC and let Conan keep the Tonight Show. As for Leno's show tanking, in my mind they split the Tonight Show's audience. Like Beefy Phil mentioned, you only want to hear jokes about today's events so many times. People that liked Leno watched his show but not Conan, and vice-versa, plus probably losing a few more viewers in other ways. Either way, 95% of the blame goes to NBC, but personally I still put 5% on Leno just because I think he should've bowed out gracefully.
I was always a fan of Leno's who I started watching after Carson retired. He's not as edgy as other comedians but he is a good late night distraction. I tried watching Letterman and he always came off as a huge prick and I never liked the flow of his comedy beats. I think this is why he eventually lost his ratings battle to Jay. I liked Conan a lot too since his sense of humor is more inline with the Simpsons generation I grew up in. I have to agree that Conan lost some of his edge when he moved into the big spot. I think had they waited another 5 or 10 years Conan's original audience could have aged enough for him to be much more viable. It is funny because when it was announced years ago that Conan would take over it was made out that it was Jay wanting to retire NOT that Conan threatened to leave and NBC promised him 1135. I think that Conan started the situation by threatening to leave while NBC fucked it up royally with the handling. edit: I think Jay, while not having a solid stance from the beginning, can't really be blamed for taking the tonight show back. NBC wanted Conan out, he was going to get canned anyway and Jay couldnt have bowed out to save him. NBC would have just found someone else. Id blame NBC before Id blame Jay on that topic.
I don't think Leno is a hack because his show didn't match up to other networks' 10 p.m. slot. I think he's a hack because he's a hack. He was a hack when he hosted the Tonight Show, he was a hack when he moved to 10 p.m., and he'll be hack when he returns to the Tonight Show. His approach to comedy is to dumb down his material to the point that Ma and Pa Brain Damage will burp out a chortle or two out every night, and then wear his contempt for his viewers on his face. He's the worst kind of entertainer: he hates the people who like him, but he has no problem cashing in on their loyalty, especially if it only requires him to half-ass his job. Say what you want about Conan, the man has integrity. He was promised something, had it taken away before he was able to prove himself, and instead of prostrating himself before his employers and accepting their shitty terms, he told them to fuck off. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel bad for the man. He's a multi-millionaire whose career in entertainment is far from over. What I do feel is a sense of encouragement knowing that someone at that level hasn't traded in his self-respect. The same cannot be said for Leno. Where did you read that NBC wanted Conan out? They've expressly stated from Day One that their best-case scenario would have been to keep both Leno and O'Brien on the air. Those shows are produced cheaply enough that it would have been worth it to retain both of them and secure both sets of viewers. No, what NBC wanted was to have their cake and eat it, too. Fuck 'em.
I've never liked Leno. The times I'm up that late I click it to Dave. He's quirky, funny and can be an asshole. I like it. As for Conan, man this is the nature of the business. It's not like he didn't know at any moment the rug could be pulled. He can read, he's not stupid, he knew his ratings were falling, he's been in the industry long enough to know what could and eventually would happen. I don't agree with the manner in which NBC is handling it, like everyone else. They're coming off looking like they kicked a puppy with the way this is all playing out. Drama is drama and creates ratings and like someone said, we love to watch a train wreck especially one where the "big guys" are the wreck. I bet Johnny Carson is rolling over in his grave.
I think it's unfair to call Leno a hack. I think it's closer to say that he's providing the content his demographic enjoys. WE (generally speaking) are NOT his demographic. EDIT: Just to clarify, I never have, and never will (knock on wood) find his sense of humour enjoyable or funny. His car-related documentaries, on the other hand (like the garage-find Dusenberg), are GOLD.
They weren't his demographic, either. Not until he got his T.V. show, and then he was more than willing to compromise his art for money. I realize I'm calling the shots from the cheap seats here, but the shift was so dramatic and transparent that it's undeniable. He knows it, too, and he's managed to turn himself into a victim with his "Well, this isn't what I'd LIKE to be doing, but you people are so goddamn stupid, I have no choice" mentality. As for whether the word 'hack' applies here: If that isn't Jay Leno's late night career in a snug little nutshell, I don't know what is.
Colour me educated... I always took "hack" to mean someone who basically hacked shit together, without being properly gifted, skilled, etc. Carlos Mencia, for instance. Based on that definition, yeah, Leno could still be (maybe) considered a hack, but only if you think he was producing other/better shit before his show. Again, I've not seen a difference in any of his work throughout his career (it's all been lame, stupid shit), so I'm not sure it applies.
Im sorry but where did he sell his soul for money? His stand up with tame to begin with, he wasn't some Bill Hicks that turned into a worn nub. Just because it isn't your style of edgy comedy somehow he is a tired hack? Fucking Conan is a hack by your definition, every comedian that does a network show would be because they are being constricted with their material for money. Give me a fucking break.
I guess. The designation doesn't necessarily require that you were once on the right-guided path and then lost your way. See: Carlos Ned Mencia Holness. Just that you made the conscious decision to steer your creative product in a direction that would make you money even if it's not the direction you want to go in. One of the articles someone posted had a video of Leno on Letterman back in the early 80s. It might not be much funnier, but it's definitely smarter. He wasn't scraping the bottom of the barrel, and if I hadn't been shitting in my diapers and puking on my bib, I might have found it entertaining at the time. Christ knows, with the exception of a handful of individuals, the 80s was a weird time for comedy.
You're right, Leno was never a shock comic. You don't have to be Bill Hicks to be funny. But compare his stuff from the 80s to any of his monologues in the last 10 years. At least back then, he was thoughtful about it. You got the sense that he cared. Now? Not so much. That's what pisses me off about him. He had the ability to be something different than what he is. He might never have been the funniest man alive, but he had comedic skill and timing, and opted out of using it meaningfully. It's a fucking shame is what it is. It took Conan 3 years to establish a solid fanbase. It took that long for enough people to figure out that his abnormal style of comedy was actually funny. He didn't change it to suit their needs, he waited it out. Did he have to ditch the masturbating bear when he moved to the Tonight Show? Yeah, ok. He can't be as abstract or quirky as he once was. But the essence of his style is retained.
Yeah, I think people forget that there are different types of comedy, and each type may not well suit each audience. For the last 15-20 years, more comedians have followed the Chris Rock/Richard Pryor/Lenny Bruce style of comedy than the more traditional Jack Benny type of comedy routine. And that's fine. I happen to love Chris Rock and Richard Pryor type of comedy. But I also like Jay Leno. Is he edgy? No, not really. Nor do I expect him to be, that's not his schtick. Same with Jerry Seinfeld, who also largely works clean. Letterman was much funnier 20 years ago when he was edgy, but as with many performers, age brings a mellowness that seems to hurt edgier performers more than ones that aren't. If there's no real anger underneath it, it loses something. Just look at the difference between Chris Rock's 'Bigger and Blacker' or 'Bring the Pain' and 'Kill the Messenger.' Is he still funny? Sure, but it doesn't have the same edge. Nor can it. He's in a much different place now. I've never thought Conan was the least bit funny. I like quirky, but he just doesn't really get my attention with his stuff (nor do the Simpsons, which he wrote for at one time). I guess for off the wall stuff I tend to like Mitch Hedberg, Bill Hicks or Dennis Miller. But there's certainly room for all of them.
Full disclosure, I find all of them funny as hell with the exception of Fallon. I don't find nervousness funny. Toss out everything Leno or Conan has said about anything it does not matter. That quote up there nails it. The demographic that watches the news, then stays up for another hour is Jay Leno's demographic or it became Jay Leno's demographic in the last 10 years. The same demographic Leno was fighting Letterman for. Fact: Leno beat Letterman according to the marketing numbers. Related Fact: NBC favors Leno, see previous fact. Conan's demographic is the younger audience that was up at 11:30* to watch him. Now, who does Conan share an audience with that he was not previously in competition with? I present to you: Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert. You want to talk about lead-ins? You don't get more solid than those two. That is where Conan actually got fucked, is going against these guys. Not saying anyone is better here, but before that demographic could watch the Daily Show and Colbert Report, watch another rerun of some silly Comedy Central show, then Conan was on. Now they have to choose, and Stewart/Colbert wins. No matter where Conan goes, if he's going against Stewart/Colbert, he won't win. *All times Central in this post.
I've never found Leno funny. The only thing I liked about him were his badass cars. I haven't watched much of Conan since Andy Richter left. Man, you want to talk about a bad career move, Andy leaving to pursue his acting career is about as text-book as it gets.
I love how admit Conan did the same exact thing you accused Jay of doing but write if off because "he retained his style." From what you've posted and what Ive seen of Leno's early stuff, I really don't know where you could see he could have "done something different." He's always had the same delivery with topical material and has never tried to "push the boundaries" say like a Bill Hicks or George Carlin. Just because a comedian doesnt base their career on being ground breaking doesnt mean theyre "hacks" or that they are pandering to the lowest common denominator. I don't see where Jay changed at all. On the other hand you cannot say that Conan didn't water down his material when me moved to The Tonight Show, it might have been the same style, but by your definition of a hack he is much much more guilty than Leno.
What I said was that Conan left the masturbating bear behind, almost certainly at the behest of the network. He has retained his style of comedy, and has tried to work around the restrictions placed on him by his higher-ups. The stuff he does now still reflects the kind of comedian he is. This is what Leno does now. Do you not see the difference between this and the Letterman video? Namely, where's the humor? What is he actually contributing to the sketch? Where's that observational comedy he used to have a talent for? Can't find it? That's because it's not there. The funny relies entirely on the audience waiting to watch people say dumb things while Leno holds a microphone. And this is one of his most popular segments. It's easy, it's lazy, it's dumb humor.
Focus: NBC doesn't care about hurt feelings or buyouts. They look at long term financial viability based on ratings / advertising dollars. To NBC, a year from now Leno will be hosting the tonight show, and getting better ratings than Conan was - which equals more money - and nobody will care about who pissed on who. Their 10 o'clock line-up will include some of the 93 variations of "L&O," maybe bring "Life" back*, and some new random drama. Those will all do better than Jay was doing at 10, and the local news folks will be happier. This was an easy decision for NBC. Alt-Focus: What NBC may not be prepared to deal with, is if Fox does offer Conan a deal, and they begin their late-night show at 11:00. Fox doesn't currently do prime time after 10, and many local Fox stations begin their news at 10. In that case, Conan will KILL Leno, because he'll have a 30 minute head start. Ironically, this may hurt the NBC local news . . . *Dear NBC, please bring back "Life" and Sarah Shahi. Damn.
Conan is one of my inspirations. I like his style, and I think this 'wackiness' is overplayed, he's just not an average lowest-common-denominator comedian. I don't think much more needs to be said, I agree with Beefy Phil on this. I think the people that find Leno funny are the ones that find The Big Bang Theory/Two and A Half Men funny. It's just not for me, at all.
You think wrong. I absolutely love BBT, and find 2.5 men quite funny, but cannot stand Leno. Leno is for stupid/slow/retarded/brain-dead people, whereas the other 2 shows actually have some intelligence to them. $0.02
I didn't know you needed a laughtrack to cue your laughter. I'm at work so I can't find the link but search on youtube for "Big Bang Theory minus laugh track". That show is an exercise in horrible, horrible writing. But I guess we'll agree to disagree. Before I ban you that is.