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Impudent Strumpet!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kampf Trinker, May 9, 2015.

  1. Kampf Trinker

    Kampf Trinker
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    While I was thinking about things that have social stigmas I thought about reading Super Freakonomics. There is a chapter about a prostitute in Chicago who pulled in something ridiculous like $500k a year for 15 hours of work a week, and only for about 2 of those hours was she actually even having sex.

    Had I been born an attractive woman there's a pretty decent chance I would be a whore. Seriously, if guys were going to pay $2000 to buy me dinner and blow a load, why not? Hell, at the rates this woman was charging even as a straight guy I would almost be tempted to let men fuck me.

    Uh, anyway...

    Focus: Should prostitution be legal? Is there any rationality behind all the moral outrage over it?

    Alt Focus: Something I've always wondered. Prostitution is illegal almost everywhere in the states, but porn is acceptable. How is this different? They're still quite obviously being paid to fuck someone, but if you film it and put it on display for everyone it's ok? What?

    Alt Alt Focus: Is our societal fear of nudity in general at all reasonable? Most of my European friends think people here are prudes and find it all kind of comical. And of course, prostitution in many countries over this is also considered no big deal.
     
  2. Juice

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    Ehhh... On one hand I don't think we should have an "anything goes" society. I think a certain level of decorum and morality* isn't harmful and doesn't make us puritans. Just people like doing something, doesn't mean they should. As for the alt focus, that doesn't make a lot of sense. It would be like saying "Watching movies of people getting killed is legal, so whats the difference from actually committing a murder?"

    On the other hand I don't give a shit and people should do what they want as adults without the government getting in the way. Do what you want, do it safely, have a good time.

    *Yeah, I know not everyone's definition of morality is the same. But we as society do have agreed upon baselines.
     
  3. Binary

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    The issue isn't that watching porn is legal. It's that it is legal to create.

    It seems odd that it's not legal to hire someone to have sex with you, but it is legal to hire someone to have sex in front of a camera. I'm not even sure what the legal grounds are for some of this: can a porn actor be the financier? Legally, what's the difference between acting in a self-financed porn, and hiring a prostitute?

    I suspect this is a terrible topic to research at work.
     
  4. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    No vice should be illegal. This is something done by consenting adults behind closed doors... How is making this illegal anything but unjust? With the right regulations and background checks it would work.

    Western society ARE prudes. Little children who giggle and scream at pee-pee parts. It's embarrassing.
     
  5. wexton

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    Make it legal, and make it like the porn industry where they have to get tested ever so often. So what if someone wants to pay for sex.
     
  6. wexton

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    I have always found that funny, parents shout OMG a nipple, but let them watch all the violence they want.
     
  7. CharlesJohnson

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    Look at all the horrors of prostitution in particular EU nations. Public health works, lessened human trafficking numbers, less drug abuse. Oh, wait. Those aren't horrors. There is zero justification behind it besides a long standing religious objection, some vague idea of decency. I'm with Crown. Legalize everything. State/federal health standards = taxes. Just like pot, just like prostitution in Nevada. Plus it gets rid of the vile pimp culture. Fuck those creatures, let 'em find a new meal ticket. The Dutch require their hoes to keep up to date on STD testing and require condom use. Bang, there you go. It works. The social stigma of purchasing sex will still be there, still be a deterrent for the "morally" concerned. The self righteous shame culture will be protected, don't worry.

    While we're at it, can we get some fuckin' LSD again? That'd be sweet.

    Alt Alt Focus: I don't care what anyone says, nudity is sexual in every culture. Ass and titties are directly correlated to fecundity. I also refuse to believe it is only American tourists taking creepy snap shots of naked women on European beaches. However, it is not a taboo elsewhere. We have ridiculously unhealthy, unfounded, views on nudity and sex. Case in point: disastrous abstinence only education which ensures high teen pregnancy rates.
     
  8. Juice

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    The legal justification is that its considered "art" and therefore protected under the 1st Amendment.
     
  9. Rush-O-Matic

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    Can you just film porn anywhere, legally? I was thinking there were permits and stuff. That would be a pretty clever try to get out of a prostitution charge if the cops busted you. After they say "you're under arrest" you just pull out your smart phone camera and say "aaaaand cut. Let's reset. Once more from the top."
     
  10. Binary

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    It's not the filming that's at question, it's the exchanging of money.

    @Rush-O-Matic - I don't know about permits. Seems like that would make all of these cam sites go out of business but I really don't know anything about their operating model.
     
  11. Juice

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    The filming of it is integral to the justification, not peripheral to it. I remember reading about it a few years ago because I had the exact same question (and Ill try to find the source), but what the courts ruled on it was that:

    1) Its two people receiving money for the goods exchanged, not just one
    2) The performers are considered "actors" that are filmed on camera and therefore protected under freedom of expression (1st Amendment)
    3) The performers don't show up and just pay each other the day's wage before they get it on. Usually its paid for by whatever production company owns the rights to the film
    4) There's a third party recipient receiving distribution of the product created

    If that seems like an incredibly fine line, its because it is.
     
  12. Kampf Trinker

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    I'm going to have to jump on you here. These arguments are so bad. For starters, your comparison between porn and murder would only make sense if the people in the movies were actually killing people. I love how you said 'that doesn't make sense.' Second, legalizing prostitution is a long ways away from just saying 'fuck it, anything goes' unless going back to the first thing you actually think it's up there with murder. Still going with the murdering people stuff, I think that would fall under agreed upon base lines, prostitution and several kinds of drugs don't. The porn is ok thing because it's art argument is straight up comical, I don't care what the courts ruled there. Let's not pretend we're complete idiots.

    For my daily life it really matters very little to me whether prostitution is legal or not, but this is pretty much how I feel about it. If the primary rationale behind something is religious (at least from a legal standpoint) it's basically worthless in my mind. And no, I'm not bashing religion, I'm bashing it interfering with legislation.
     
    #12 Kampf Trinker, May 11, 2015
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  13. Juice

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    You're missing the point, it wasn't a literal comparison to murder. And my comparison does make sense in the context to which you originally phrased the question, which Binary helped clarify. I wasn't arguing on behalf of the courts either, I was simply stating their distinction between the two.

    One moral issue I have with it doesn't have anything to do with religion, its a question of consent. Not every prostitute is going to work at the Bunny Ranch in Nevada, some are going to be low-level street walkers regardless of legality. Can someone really give actual consent (even for money) if the alternative means they might starve to death? What if the prostitute or john is drunk? Does that become rape and extortion? I think its a little more complicated than just legalizing a vice.
     
  14. fleafly

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    It's as simple as one thing. Taxation. The reason porn is legal is because the government can tax it. Even though it's the oldest profession, It's hard to tax prostitution.
     
  15. Kampf Trinker

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    You can phrase or clarify it however you like. Pretending to do something and actually doing something just aren't the same thing. I think we can both agree that the stuff in your second paragraph can and does happen. We also both know that some people are too irresponsible to handle guns and alcohol, but we accept this. Not quite the same ball park, but we know that some rights come with a certain amount of baggage. How is this so different? That aside, my main contention with this line of thinking is that I think legalizing prostitution tends to reduce these problems rather than exacerbate them.

    Fleafly- The government has a hard time taxing porn quite often too, and while they would certainly miss out on a good chunk of the money if it was just about taxes it would have been legal already.
     
  16. Frebis

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    Government-"we get 10% of the money for every trick you turn."

    It's no different than taxing any other service.
     
  17. wexton

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    No, but it is a lot harder to say exactly how many tricks each prostitute turns.
     
  18. Juice

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    But that can be said for any cash-based business. Sometimes people do work for others under the table, but at the end of the day if the IRS thinks you're falsifying your taxable income they will audit you.
     
  19. shegirl

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    Redemption Seeking Whore

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't pulling tricks one of the oldest professions in history?
     
  20. Rush-O-Matic

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    You were there. Can't you just double check the notes in your stone tablets?