I know we've done these threads before, but given recent events - and apparently shifting definitions culturally - what makes a man to you? Be funny, be serious, be insightful, or all three. Unless of course being any one of the three goes against your man creed.
A real man can love and care for kittens, puppies and babies, but in a pinch knows how to put together a good marinade for, and properly barbecue, all three.
If - by Rudyard Kipling If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies, Or being hated, don’t give way to hating, And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream—and not make dreams your master; If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools: If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’ If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much; If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
I've actually been thinking about some version of this question lately, mostly phrased as, "What are the traits that make a man attractive?" Because the surveys that list kindness, humour, compassion, etc. are, I feel, incorrect. I think to really come across as an adult male you should have your version of three characteristics: 1. Capability. Are you capable in a wide variety of situations? Here's some random ones: - Your vehicle blows a tire on the highway. - A close relative dies. - The waiter accidentally dumps a tray on your girlfriend at dinner. - You have to host 25 people for Easter dinner this weekend. - You get invited to a formal dinner with your boss and the Board of Directors - Some random grabs your GF at the bar and scares her. These situations require a wide variety of physical, intellectual and emotional skill sets. If you can handle them all without needing direction from someone else how to do it, check goes to you. 2. Take Action. All of ^ those things I just mentioned require you to actually do something. It isn't any good to know how to change a tire if someone has to nag you for three days to do it. It's great if you know how to cook, but if you don't actually pitch in, then you are not the one who is actually having dinner for 25 relatives. Standing up and taking action without waiting for permission or having to be told is rare. 3. Be Attentive. This, of the three, is the hardest for most men. Are you attuned to your environment and the people within it? Some examples: - How does you wife like her coffee? Is it different from how she likes her tea? - A bunch of you are working late. The lone female employee gets up to leave. Does it occur to you to offer to walk her to her car, since it's dark and there's no one around? - Can you tell if someone has had a bad day? These may seem like random little pissy things, but the ability to know the little nuances and pick up on subtle cues is really, really attractive. So yeah. I think if you have these three things, you're on your way. It typically translates to exuding confidence and making those around you feel safe and at ease. I also like the quote that I think LessTalkMoreStab had for awhile: a gentleman is someone never hurts someone's feelings unintentionally.
What makes a man? Crush your enemies, see them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women. I have no idea what makes a man. I've seen many different people behave in all sorts of ways. The only thing I know is anyone who says they know for sure is wrong. For now, I'll parrot Steinbeck, "It seems to me that if you or I must choose between two courses of thought or action, we should remember our dying and try so to live that our death brings no pleasure to the world."
These questions are always tricky and I feel historically they are always unfairly slanted towards "manly man" bullshit like building a deck from a oak tree you fell yourself and field dressing a moose. I think it all comes down to being versatile and well rounded, and showing a range of behaviors and emotions. I don't hunt, I'm not someone who gets enthused by manual labor or yardwork, and I give a shit about what products I put in my hair or how my clothes are cut/fit, but I can cook well, I can easily handle most standard home/car maintenance, and as the son of an engineer, I learned early on how to be clever, creative, and crafty when it came to fixing stuff. Plus, with the internet, there is no excuse to not at least try to learn how to do some things.
In my opinion, there's about six criteria wherein I consider someone a true man: 1. Can you, in a situation of stress, shut the fuck up and set to work? Not in a necessarily Theodore Roosevelt way, or Overly Manly Man way. But can you calmly and with ease figure out how to do something you have little familiarity with? Can you take simple instruction? Does stress make you buckle, or does it make you more determined? 2. Can you display basic up-keep behavior of your property? Can you vacuum? Can you keep things looking neat? I think the first thing I realized post-teenager was that even the slightest bit of slobbery was just going to have to be dealt with, later. I'm not talking put a coaster under every drink, but you should be able to perform basic car maintenance, gardening, washing your dishes and not eating off paper plates for every meal, etc. 3. Do you take a pride, a healthy one, into you endeavors? Not the sort of chest-thumping, dumb-machismo that people think is manly, but the manliness to, yet again, persevere in light of heaping helpings of Life's hardships? 4. Do you treat women with due respect? I'm not talking the stereotypical White Knight, but can you treat women like they're the people they are, whether or not you are actively sexually involved with them? 5. How is your friendship record? This could tie to an early socialization thing, but many guys who lack a male role model or had a shitty one(s) basically go through life meek and terrified or trying to cover that lack of knowledge with a lot of unnecessary arrogance and "Alpha Male" posturing. Guys who can maintain friendships in adulthood are becoming so fuckin' rare. Before I go on too much here, there's fucking forty year old guys who act like gigantic preschool kids in social activities. 6. Can you laugh it off? A sense of humor is I think critical to a healthy man's repertoire. Whether dead-pan, snarky or self-deprecating you should be able to not take yourself or your life so seriously. After all, no one gets out of life alive. Now, I could add to that, and there's tons of variations of dudes, for better and worse and everywhere in-between on those six criteria, but they are huge in my mind.
What makes "a man" to me? Wolverine drinking a scotch while pleasuring several women at the same time. Eh, there's no way to make a definitive list, but some things that come to mind: - Treats himself and others with respect - Takes responsibility for his thoughts, words and actions (and follows through with his...er..for lack of a better word, responsibilities. ex if he's taken responsibility for his kids, parents, spouse, etc) - Is willing to apologize when he's screwed up/is wrong - Is open minded to listening and considering dissenting opinions and values - Goes hand-in-hand with the above, but demonstrates at least a basic level of critical thinking and problem solving - Is continuously attempting to better himself in some way - physically, cognitively, spiritually, financially, etc. I think anything else is petty and/or superficial.
Which is all well and good, but the man who wrote that would more than likely fail all the tests you've proposed.
Any woman who expects a man to be things from a list, probably has trouble finding / keeping a man. (assuming she wants one) Any man who thinks he needs to be things from a list, probably has trouble. Every man I've ever known whom I consider(ed) to be a real man is (was) kind. He was confident enough in himself to treat others respectfully, without it appearing as weakness in any way. Everything else is just character traits that some will find attractive and some won't.
Off topic, but shouldn't that be, a gentleman is someone who never hurts someone's feelings intentionally.
These are all great ideals, but the things everyone mentioned are the benchmarks for being an adult, not necessarily a man. I'm racking my brain for a gender biased goal. Don't be shitty, raise your kids, dress appropriately, solve problems, fix shit, have goals are all great for both genders. The only thing I can come up with is skinny jeans. Jesus fuck, don't wear these. Women look great in them, you look like a bird legged ballerina. Your kids in 2030 will be wearing some stupid prong shaped hat that has a 3D ad for McDonald's streaming on it and he will make fun of you for wearing skinny pants.
The quote is saying that a gentleman is allowed to insult someone when he means to, but at all other times, he uses manners and courtesy to avoid giving offence when he doesn't intend to. I had thought that this was an Oscar Wilde quote, but after doing some googling, it appears that it is unlikely he actually wrote it. In other news:
Actually no, he would not. The guy I described would have a pretty big tool bag of skills to draw on, including being sensitive to a particular emotional reaction. I'm pretty sure I said in my post that it's not just physical skills I'm referring to. The problem I have with being "a nice guy," as it's often referred to, is that not every situation requires you to be nice.
No one has spoken of a sense of humor. If you can make a woman laugh you can do a lot of things with/to her. But you can't just be a JackAss dumbass. You can laugh at yourself, you can find the humor in bad situations, you can find things to gently tease a woman about. I think it takes self awareness, a sense of self, and knowledge of the world around. I like being able to make my co workers laugh when things are hard or/and not going well. And making a woman laugh when she's trying so hard not to is gold.
Seriously though, I think defining what it means to be a "man" beyond physical characteristics or what a person personally values or finds attractive is outdated and dumb. Because when I look at the things people are listing above or when I think about what "being a man" means to me personally, they're pretty much all traits that you would want to have as a person, regardless of gender. Or to put it another way, if a women displayed the traits most of you have listed above, would that make her more "mannish" and therefore inferior as a person?