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I Mean, When I Order Coffee I Want It Filled Six Times

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Volo, Feb 13, 2010.

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  1. jets22

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    In fact, I am heading to the gym in 26 minutes!
     
  2. DrFrylock

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    Minimum 20%, usually 25-30% depending on how the rounding goes. Of the post-tax amount (I am informed that people sometimes tip on the pre-tax amount).

    On the high side for places I frequent, a little more (40%+) for haircuts because I get cheap haircuts.

    I have never gone low or stiffed anyone that I can recall. I rarely get bad service. Even when it happens (rarely) who the fuck knows why the service isn't up to par? Maybe three guys called in sick and the remaining three are hauling ass covering. Maybe the guy's new. Maybe the kitchen has a problem. I don't know. Why screw people without a really good reason? I might think about it if I saw people hanging out screwing around while I got terrible service, but then again I generally avoid places where that happens in the first place. If I have bad service I'm not going to stiff you on the tip, I'm just not going to come back. There are like 60,000 restaurants in a three mile radius from me.

    There have only been one or two places I frequent often enough such that tipping well has ever gotten me improved service on subsequent visits. I don't really expect it, the difference between 20% and 25% on a $40 check is what, two bucks? "Wow, you did such a good job, here's an extra TWO BUCKS! Don't spend it all in one place!" Meh.

    Once I went into a Cold Stone on a hot afternoon in an out-of-the-way mall and got an ice cream cone. I was the only one in there. I threw a tip in the jar and suddenly all these teenagers are singing at me. I was like "what the fuck?" I did not understand the tip->singing connection at the time. I get it now, but the first time it was a little disturbing.
     
  3. hiphopguru

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    the one thing that I absolutely hate the most about the food service industry is that we as a society are obligated to tip at buffets.
    How does this even begin to make sense? The only real work that is being done is me paying to hit the food lines... How can someone feel that they deserve my money just to watch me eat and clear away my dirty plates. Absolutely ridiculous.
     
  4. Spoz

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    This thread makes me glad to live in Australia, where not tipping is the norm. Tipping is rarely discussed when eating out with friends and 90% of the time, if we leave a tip, its because we can't be bothered dividing the change between us.

    I occasionally tip barstaff - but only if they do something special or I order a cocktail. Where bar lines can be measured in hours I have, on occasion, told a busy bargirl that theres a $10 tip for her if she serves me next. It has always worked but I'm not sure of the etiquette of this situation - maybe it's a dick thing to do to the other people waiting. Even if it is, by the time I resort to offering tips for service, I hate those jerks anyway.

    Tipping at restaurants is much the same, it's only really considered if the service is above average. However, the one person I always tip is the pizza guy. Mainly because I worked as one for a month and know exactly what a shitty, lowpaying job it is, and how grateful the drivers are for any monetary recognition of this.
     
  5. toddus

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    As someone who has travelled extensively and has lived and is currently living outside of the states in my experience this is untrue. I find service in the US probably about middling of countries I have visited and of those I have lived in it is behind both Australia and England. I would put it on par with Canada, possibly below.
     
  6. thatone

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    I live in Australia and I don't tip jack shit because
    a) It doesn't make a difference to the level of service you receive and
    b) They make a decent enough wage (usually $15/hr, which is about 13.50USD) and when I worked jobs which paid about that much, I never got tips. All I got was a sore back after shoveling for 8 hours, so fuck them.

    However, when I went to the states I made sure I always tipped. Usually a minimum of 20% or so, but sometimes more. If someone is making $2/hr, it is just something that you do. I left about 40% tip when I went to Alan Wong's in Honolulu - I walked out of that place in the sort of euphoric daze that I usually only feel after spending an hour smacking a prostitute across the face with pork loin chops.
     
  7. Aperture

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    Reading these tipping threads makes me laugh. On one hand, you have a bunch of people that go off ranting about kids today and their sense of entitlement, and on the other, you have the "woe is me I was a server in college bullshit" going on at the same time.

    Nowhere in the history of ever has 20% been the "standard" tip. If you think that it is, fine. or If you think that it should be, cool. If you think that it should be "mandatory," fuck you. Fuck you in the ear. Why? Because you're being a self-entitled jackass. You're also guaranteeing that every idiot that ignores their patrons also sees the same percentage. That's going to ultimately result in fewer people frequenting your restaurant period, because the service sucks. No one is going to pay a premium for shitty service. So keep telling yourself that everyone should pay you 20%, (and treating those that don't like shit) and you'll get just what you wished for, an empty fucking establishment.

    (If I had "servers" thinking they were somehow entitled to 20 fucking percent, I'd fire your asses.)

    Does that mean I'm going to stiff the average server because I don't appreciate the work they're doing? Absolutely not. That's just the mark of an asshole. What I do believe is that 15% is a better "average" because on that sliding scale of courteous service and speed, it's in the middle. 20% used to be at the upper end of that scale, but somewhere that has changed, even though it's a percentage of the bill as opposed to a specific dollar amount. Adding 5% because of some crazy belief that they're modern day indentured servants only reinforces their belief that they are martyrs of the foodservice industry and that we should pity them. It also rewards mediocre service in addition to the people that ARE busting their asses.

    I'd also like to add that if you're tipping 10% or less, you should be talking to the management. The problem with just "walking out" or stiffing the server could mean that you're fucking over hardworking people if they're pooling tips. It will also mean that management will never know who isn't pulling their own weight. Don't do it.
     
  8. Beefy Phil

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    I'm pretty sure that most people who have said they tip 20% have also said that's the norm for decent service, and that if their waitstaff is an "idiot that ignores their patrons", they tip less. If they bust their ass, they tip more. Novel concept, I know. So where exactly is the guarantee of equal percentage for negligent servers?

    I'm no math whiz, but I believe that on a thirty dollar bill, the difference between 15% and 20% is a dollar and change. If I were the kind of person who spent more than a half-second debating whether some waitress who did her job really earned that extra $1.50, I would drown myself in a septic tank. The same goes for the extra $5 on a $100 bill, or extra $10 on a $200 bill.

    Again, if you're sweating a few bucks on the tip at the end of a meal, you can't afford to be in that restaurant in the first place.
     
  9. Aperture

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    Again, let's temper our sweeping rationalizations and attempts at humor with some common sense. It's not about "debate" so much as it was an argument against what was to be considered "standard" when tipping. I said that 20% was a bit much for mediocre service. It's simple math, and there is no "debate." It also has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's ability to "afford" being in a restaurant, which came nowhere near the point of my statement in the first place. While you're not debating the need to give the extra buck fifty, you'd argue as to why I should. For what you've already said is an insignificant amount, the septic tank still seems to be in order.
     
  10. Beefy Phil

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    You arrived at the conclusion that "20% was a bit much" after establishing 15% as the arbitrary "middle". Middle of what? The only reason you tip 15% is because you were told it was the norm. Surprise, the norm has shifted. Now, because of a 5% increase, you are the one making sweeping generalizations (not rationalizations) about entitlement and occupational martyrdom.

    Also, the word you're looking for is "empathy", not "entitlement". I tip 20% when someone does their job because I know at some point during their shift, they're going to get stiffed by someone who considers the fairly negligible difference between 15% and 20% to be a meaningful indicator of their level of satisfaction, instead of what it actually is: cheapness.
     
  11. Aperture

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    From everyone that I've talked to, 20% was the norm for exceptional service, and 10% was the norm for bad service. (Tipping less than 10% has always been frowned upon regardless of the level of service.) The "norm" didn't "shift" so much as some people felt entitled to more than they previously received. (I said "entitled" because that's what I meant, don't tell me what I was looking for because you're wrong.) Again, this would warrant no complaint if we were talking about a specific amount, but we aren't. We're talking about a percentage, which would rise along with inflation and the cost of meals.

    You tip 20% because someone does their job. Great. Fantastic. You're also making a generalization about someone else stiffing them when they're actually doing their job. If that person is honorable, they're not going to (or at least shouldn't) get stiffed anyway, but that's another discussion. Calling me cheap because I don't agree with your personal philosophy is just silly.
     
  12. Volo

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    One thing we can agree on, is that you should expect to put out some cash for a good dinner and a good experience. The cheaper you are, the cheaper the experience will be.

    Problem is that a lot of operators use the sub-minimum wage bullshit to line their pockets a little more, and to suck the lining out of ours. I mean, you go to any restaurant and you're paying the waitstaff's wages, simply by ordering a meal and paying for it. Where I draw the line is paying the entire wages of the waitstaff. A few bucks tip isn't a problem for me, but I don't ever feel like I've gotta drop a $20 on the table just because he or she was able to do the following:

    - Take my order properly
    - Bring me a drink
    - Punch it in properly
    - Bring the apps
    - Bring me another drink
    - Clear the apps and bring the entre├ęs
    - Check back once, maybe twice
    - Bring the cheque

    I've done it, and it's not that hard if you're paying attention to your surroundings, and know how to keep organized and cool-headed, even when balancing other tables. Problem is, that some places try to maximize what they get out of their staff, and while that's smart business in monetary terms, it's terrible business when they can't get the job done because there's too much to do for one person. The one thing that any restaurant should never do is skimp of the labour. Less people around means more money there, but less money in the long run because you're pissing people off with shitty service.

    It's also worth noting that I'm Canadian, and up here our employers are forced to pay at least minimum wage, so even on a night with next to no tips, there's a decent wage to be had.

    Quite frankly, I reckon that the service cost should be factored into the cost of the meal. Not to eliminate tipping, which is an alright idea, but to eliminate the need for this sub-minimum bullshit.

    Well said. The sense of entitlement that some folks get while serving just fuckin' astounds me. I'm all for making money, but some people just chase that buck around all day and night and while they're tired from running, they didn't fuckin' do anything to earn it. Serving is a hard job to do well, and requires a heroic amount of organization and acting skills. The money isn't supposed to just roll in automatically.

    However, at the same time, us diners tend to make generalizations about servers as well, which is ironic.
     
  13. MoreCowbell

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    Translation: "MY SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCES AND OPINIONS HAVE GREATER TRUTH VALUE THAN YOURS. WAH WAH WAH!"
     
  14. shegirl

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    Ok boys stop flexing and peeing on your bushes. Lets get back to the focus, or I'll have to start handing out spankings.
     
  15. silway

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    To be fair, that's a pretty good summation of the vast majority of debates like these.

    As for myself I usually tip in the 15% range. 20% if extra good, 10% if extra bad.

    The place where I start getting all sorts of undecided and confused is places that charge a delivery charge. Where does that money go? Is it subsidizing the salary of the driver or just a random add-on charge for more restaurant profit?
     
  16. Beefy Phil

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    So, to be clear, your take on this is that the Waitstaff Guild Of Earth decided they weren't being tipped well enough, voted to increase the standard percentage from 15% to 20% and somehow, magically, it was made gospel? Without the consent of us peons? Astounding.

    The waitstaff didn't decide anything. The tipping percentage increased because diners, many of them young adults who work service jobs themselves, recognized the often difficult conditions these people work under, and felt that a larger gratuity was warranted for their efforts. It's one of those wacky situations where you seek to treat people the way you'd want to be treated.

    If you want to see the word 'entitlement' used correctly, go find the thread we did about asshole restaurant patrons who assume that putting their ass in a seat grants them license to treat other human beings like they're underlings because they carry your food around.
     
  17. Aperture

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    We disagree. I don't think that anyone is automatically entitled to 20% tips for simply doing their jobs. 20% (and above) is reserved for exceptional service. You think that's flawed thinking. I get it. The problem is, I don't care.

    I'm done.
     
  18. Beefy Phil

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    If you're going to call me an asshole, do it in public, coward. Remind me, who's the "kid" here?.

    You know what the difference between your calling a 20% tip "entitlement", and someone in 1950 calling a 15% tip "entitlement"? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Things change. Customs evolve. It doesn't mean we're entitled. It means you're incapable of understanding that just because something is different than you remember it being, that doesn't make it wrong.

    You old people and your refusal to admit that you don't know everything just because your pubic hair is going gray.
     
  19. shegirl

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    That's it. I asked so nice too, spankings and everything. You guys suck at letting shit go. If it's so important take your slapfight to PM. You made me be all mean and stuff. Apparently for some that's a turn on. Weirdos.
     
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