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I don't know... it's kind of comfy under this bridge...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nettdata, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. Nettdata

    Nettdata
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    Mr. Toast

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    A man has been jailed for 18 weeks for sending abusive messages on social networking sites.

    Trolling is a fact of life on the internet, with varying degrees of ugliness.

    It's kind of obvious that we also have a few local trolls that basically come on here with the express purpose of raising hell and baiting people for shits and giggles. Poopouri/Sammerton was the most recent one to be banned (twice) because it got old and tiring.

    (Really, you're going to have a better chance of getting away with trolling if you actually add some quality content as well, not just troll 100% of the time... that's why KiMaster was only ever given a 1-2 day short-term ban... say what you will about the guy, he also added a bunch of interesting shit).

    For me, personally, I draw the line at babysitting. When I have to spend too much time cleaning up after some troll derails everything he touches, I get pissy and swing the banhammer disproportionately heavily.




    FOCUS: Trolling. What's your take on it? Where do you draw the line? Do you troll? Where's your tolerance level for it?

    ALT-FOCUS: Discuss the article.
     

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  2. Nettdata

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    Mr. Toast

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    The scary thing is that he actually LOOKS like a troll...

    [​IMG]
     
  3. AlmostGaunt

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    Focus: I have to admit, I have a spot spot for well-executed* or absurd trolling. Partly because it's funny to watch people flip their shit, and partly because I'm a huge fan of misplaced talent in general. Basically I enjoy watching smart people use their powers for totally bizarre purposes. See also: Doug Anthony All Stars, Banksy, Chaser's War on Everything, etc. Please note: this doesn't apply to the people who spam threads with 'LOLGTFOFAGGOTLOLOLOL', those people are boring. I particularly love trolling done to powerful entities in public places, perhaps the best known from my country is this:
    (The guys behind this stunt promptly had their tv show axed, threatened with jail and national security violations, etc etc. Apparently the Government doesn't like it when they spend $170Million on security and a group of comedians dressed as OBL can print up a fake pass and enter a restricted area).

    I am occasionally accused of being a troll, although I never was in the traditional (well, not traditional in the 'eater of goats') sense. I just tend to have strongly held opinions that run counter to the wisdom of the day, an aggressive writing style, and a lack of tolerance for opinions which I believe to be poorly thought out. Back in the day I used to troll a section of Bluelight.ru which was run by radical feminists; I'd post the same question from two different accounts, with the genders reversed, a couple of weeks apart. Then I would point out the disparity in responses from moderators. I thought it was clever at the time, but then I grew up / stopped caring. These days I just admire the work of others from afar.

    And now I sort of enjoy baiting DCC via rep, just because. Oh, and this is people trolling themselves.


    *That link came from Jimmy James. Cheers.
     
    #3 AlmostGaunt, Sep 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  4. Disgustipated

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    I think trolling is one of those things that gets fuzzier the closer you get to the edge of it. One man's troll is another man's freedom fighter, and so forth.

    It's the nature of the internet that at any given time there's going to be people commenting on things just for the sake of having their fingers move and to get a response. They're the electronic equivalent of the six year old shaving the cat in front of the guests during a dinner party simply so that they can have some attention; because, after all, negative attention is better than no attention.

    The reason they're so prolific is that there is almost zero reprisal for their actions. At best, you can lock them out and hope they don't come back. In some senses, this only reinforces their behaviour because they get a kick out of pissing someone off to the extent where they do something. It's a form of control. Even the age old "ignore it and it will go away" doesn't work because eventually they know the odds are that someone will validate their actions by responding.

    Personally, I hate trolls for the most part. The ones I hate are the ones who antagonise others for nothing more than their own selfish self-stimulation. That's an incredibly subjective test though, which I fully accept. A large part of the problem is that, at least in the troll's own mind, their actions are justified. There's no effective way to combat that. At least, not until we all get the ability to take a snap forum vote and electrocute asshole posters. We can only hope.
     
  5. Raoul153

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    On Britain's Channel 4 News, the presenter Jon Snow was talking about this story and he said the behaviour was known as 'trol-ing'. Seriously. The word came up on the screen under the picture of the guy, spelled 'Trolling', and he pronounced it 'trol-ing'.

    I have zero idea how presenters are briefed and so on, but I just found it hard to believe that these big mainstream news channels don't have anyone who uses the internet enough to be familiar with these sorts of terms. Then again, maybe that's how mainstream news channels troll the internet...
     
  6. Bourbondownthehouse

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    I'm not going to outright defend the kind of shit this guy posted, specifically targeting the family and friends of a young girl who recently killed her self is tasteless no doubt. Then again this dude has to go jail for hurting peoples' feelings.
     
  7. Firefnd1982

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. mya

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    Alternate caption "You know nothing, John Snow"
     
  9. Frank

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    This. If you compare how Poo/Sammerton was trolling here, it was nowhere near the level of the wahoos on the old board which we all found hilarious. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he shouldn't have been banned, it's just that when the gun is pointed at you, you have a totally different perspective on it.

    And I agree with Bourbondownthehouse, the guy is a piece of shit, but to go to jail over words on the internet is fucking stupid. Isn't this exactly what the Dimeo thing was about? Part of freedom is allowing shit to go on you don't necessarily agree with.
     
  10. RCGT

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    I, like AlmostGaunt, can appreciate the absurdist humor of a good troll. Sarcasm is trolling at its most basic form, after all, and we all love being sarcastic assholes. And some people (especially people having political arguments on Facebook, or similar) deserve to be trolled for their stupidity.

    (There's also the attitude that if you're upset about something said on the Internet, "u mad". This is a stupid argument, because the human brain did not evolve with a little emotionless lobe to process all Internet data specifically. Yes, it doesn't directly affect your life; but I don't see how it's different from someone saying the same shit to your face.)

    Does trolling violate good taste? Yeah. Do you have to be a huge asshole to say some of the things, for example, this guy said? Definitely. I can't help but think a lot of the borderline shit is done by people who don't have a lot going on in their lives.

    But should it be illegal to say things "of an indecent/offensive nature"? Fuck no. We have harassment laws over here, I can only imagine the UK has something similar. And somebody in this story has to have heard of the word "moderator."

    Basically I agree with this quote:
     
  11. Firefnd1982

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    At what point though does trolling become legitimate harassment? Outside of the internet, he could have been guilty of harassment and either been charged or had a restraining order placed on him. (At least in the USA, I am not too familiar with British law). Then even if he couldn't be charged, he could at least be confronted face to face.

    The internet's anonymity can be seen as extremely awesome thing, when used for the greater good of the people. However when used inappropriately for purposes of harassment, especially to the degree that it causes great mental harm to a person, that I begin to wish that it were not anonymous.

    I must say this comes at a time where I am a little sensitive about the subject, as someone has decided to post some defamatory false information about my department on an anonymous local message board. The things that are being said about us would warrant a major ass kicking if I ever found out for sure who it is.
     
  12. Frank

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    I can see the restraining order, but could he have been arrested for it? I mean yeah, if he broke into their homes and pulled that he would have, but the West Baptist morons don't get arrested for saying what I would argue is much worse stuff.

    And it's not like facebook can't ban the guy to stop the attacks.

    Edit: Didn't read what the guy said, but was it libelous? I thought it was just attacks.
     
  13. Firefnd1982

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    Ahh, ok, i read the article wrong. I thought i stated that he was harassing her and that's why she off'ed herself. If she was alive, being that she was 15 and he was 25 and he was calling her a slut and a whore he probably could have been charged with something.
     
  14. Bourbondownthehouse

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    I can't speak for for anywhere but Indiana, but harassment is a tough charge to file. Insulting is not equal to harassment. In order to charge someone criminally for something like this, law enforcement has to show that it has been continuing for some time. The law is not designed to protect people from petty insults like "slut" or things of that nature.

    If this man had been personally calling the girl (while she was alive) and making threats toward her safety or showing up at her school on a regular basis, someone would need to step in. As cliche as it may sound, just turn the fucking computer off.

    EDIT: Also I see violent offenders do significantly less time than this guy got for simply being a dick.
     
  15. D26

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    More often than not, Trolls are just people who are desperate for any kind of attention. It is my firm belief that KIMaster was picked on relentlessly in real life, and likely went through high school as an outcast. On the internet, though, he could be awesome. Make an MMA fighter his avatar, talk about how much you love MMA and fighting, and then troll the shit out of people to make yourself feel better.

    There is also the pyramid of yelling (as talked about on How I Met Your Mother) where they explain: Your boss yells at you. You yell at the worker at Starbucks. Eventually, someone is getting yelled at that doesn't have anyone else to vent on, so they go online and start internet fights to make themselves feel better.

    Sometimes, yes, there are people who troll to point out absurdities or hypocrisies. However, in cases like this guy, I'm guessing he just felt like shit about his life, so he wanted to make others feel like shit, too.
     

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  16. Kampf Trinker

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    I have nothing against the idea of trolling, it's just that most trolls aren't funny, they're just idiots. The internet would be a better place without them cluttering up forums. Some, like D26 pointed out have shitty lives and need a place to vent and act tough (although I have no idea if that was the case with KIMaster). Others are teenage idiots who shouldn't be let near a computer. The trolling I don't get the most is when people post something stupid with the intent of convincing people they're stupid. Where is the humor in this? So you can make people think you're a fucking moron. Great, maybe it's closer to the truth than you thought.
     
  17. Frank

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    Who's in the what now?

    Random aside, I think Bloodninja is hilarious

    Partner6: So you're really a 18 yr old girl right?
    J-Dogg: Yeah, J for Julie.
    Partner6: So whats with the "Dogg"
    J-Dogg: Uh, It's cause I'm into the latina gangs and shit. You know, rollin with tha homies and shit.
    Partner6: Oh, uh ok thats cool. So you ever seen a gun?
    J-Dogg: Yeah like I got 6 guns.
    Partner6: Thats cool, so you wanna see my gun?
    J-Dogg: hehe, of course baby.
    Partner6: I pull off my pants and show you my "gun".
    J-Dogg: Ohh, it's so big.
    Partner6: Yeah, what you want to do?
    J-Dogg: Umm, i guess stroke it or something.
    Partner6: It likes that.
    J-Dogg: aight.
    Partner6: Keep talking to me baby...
    J-Dogg: I kiss you on the mouth, hard, but then gently.
    Partner6: Mmmm, daddy like.
    J-Dogg: I unzip my pants...
    Partner6: Yes, show me what you got.
    J-Dogg: I pull out my schlong, and rub it on your breasts...
    Partner6: WTF?!
    J-Dogg: Oh s**t, I meant, your schlong! your schlong!
    Partner6: I've had it with you queers trying to cyber me, I only f**k women...
    J-Dogg: S**it just don't shoot me man, I wasn't serious about the guns I have, I'm unarmed!
    Partner6: You dips**t.
    J-Dogg: I whimper to myself...
    J-Dogg: please don't shoot me Mr.
     
  18. Veovis

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    I take off my robe and wizards hat.

    Bloodninja was definately good for laughs.

    Didn't see this posted either and I've had some good laughs from it so <a class="postlink" href="http://artoftrolling.memebase.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://artoftrolling.memebase.com/</a>


    I think for the most part a lot of it is done as harmless fun, but there are lines that can be crossed that shouldn't. When we were kids it was called teasing someone, not trolling but teasing was easy to see that it went from good natured to just being a harrassing asshole to someone.
     
  19. Crown Royal

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    I look at trolling two ways: it can be greatly entertaining if the person doing it has a natural comic talent. A rare breed of them are brilliantly funny, but 95% represent the other half of trolling: a soapbox for the mentally challenged.

    THAT type of trolling is usually done by people that fill their incredible chasm of worthlessness by picking on people that have nothing to do with them, and therefore can't touch them. Personally, I can't figure that out. I prefer, well....this. Find the right place and you won't need to troll. Instead, four years ago I found a website filled with alcohol-addeled, sexually depraved sociopaths that know every trick in the book.

    Perfect.
     
  20. scootah

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    I'm guilty of trolling from time to time. Tagging the NYC meetup subject as going to be Comic Con and the like. I guess i draw the distinction in that I don't generally troll about things that are actually important - IE an internet meetup and it's potential attendants? fair game. The recent death of a young girl, and her family? not so much. I guess I also draw the line at fucking with someone who actually did something to warrant being trolled (I might be nasty to someone who was making homophobic/misogynistic comments, where I'd just bust someone's balls a little for being geeks). I also endorse trolling people who invite trolling - if you're publicly having a quarter life crisis, or if you blog about how you enjoy 'Yiffing' in a fur suit (and I say this as someone who had depression in his mid 20's, and regularly fucks a furry) - then being made fun of a little isn't something you should be protected from by law. Toughen up.

    There was a previous case in Australia that was reported as 'JAILED FOR TROLLING!' - which was in fact a guy posted kiddy porn on the memorial facebook page of some dead kids. While he was indeed trolling, he was also posting kiddy porn, and posting it on a webpage that he knew minors would be visiting. I'm 100% ok with that guy going to jail - not because he was trolling, but because he was in possession of kiddy porn, and was distributing it to minors.

    Making offensive comments, no matter how tasteless or awful, shouldn't be illegal. I guess I kind of support restricting hate speech and bigotry (I'm ok with the cops preventing actual discrimination like 'No JewNiggers in my shop!' or even really nasty bigotry 'Hey JewNigger, make me a sammich! Not a Bagel, a Sammich! No, not with watermelon!' when a reasonable person would believe it was an actual expression of hate, so excluding things you might say to your roommate/friend, who happens to be of semitic/negro descent, but including things shouted by skinheads with white power tattoo's at strangers), and I kind of support treating making a threat as a lesser kind of assault (the guy said he's going to fucking murder someone, and a reasonable person would believe he meant it as an actual threat, I think it's ok for the cops to become involved). I mean I see problems with both restrictions - but I don't hate them enough to have a clear opinion about if they should or shouldn't be legal (in a moral sense, rather than in an interpretive sense of any particular national constitution).

    Just being nasty to someone with no prejudice or bigotry, but because you feel that they as a unique individual regardless of all socioeconomic, ethnic or religious grouping, happens to suck - I don't think should be against the law. I mean maybe a constant campaign where you letter bomb their house on a regular basis with the details of how much they suck would warrant a restraining order or something - a government enforced order to stop being a dick. But jail? Fuck that. And public spaces - like a public page on the internet? Not something I think warrants protection unless you're breaching the site owner's expressed desire that you stay the fuck out.

    I wonder how long before you can get an RO preventing someone from approaching your home, your place of work, or social media presences?