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I Can't Sleep...Now What?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dr. Rob, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. DrFrylock

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    If I leave the TV off my mind races and I can't sleep at all. 10 minutes of a movie I've already seen and I pass right out.
     
  2. Bjornturoc

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    I used to sleep before I started to read and listen to music in my bed. I think I've tricked my brain into thinking the bed is a place where I stay AWAKE rather than go to sleep. It sucks. I only got 3 hours of sleep last night, and I went to bed at 12. Waking up at 7 with such little sleep cannot be good for me, yet here I am still wide awake, when I need to be up by 8 tomorrow. I gotta figure something out.
     
  3. Dr. Rob

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    Clearly, good sleep is idiosyncratic, but the AMA and sleep experts do have certain guidelines they recommend. These are applicable to the masses, not individuals per se. That said, it's recommended that if you can't fall asleep after 15-20 minutes, you get out of bed and do something else, generally non-stimulating, until you feel tired and then try again. If another 20 minutes go by, get up again.

    The caffeine issue changes all the time, but right now I think the standard recommendation is no caffeine for 8 hours prior to hitting the sack.
     
  4. Dr. Rob

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    My sleep sucks. I sometimes take Klonopin (my doctor is a big fan...of Klonopin, not me), and I try to follow some basic rules (not always in the same evening), and the more rules I follow, the better the results:

    1) No caffeine after 3 PM
    2) Diaphragmatic Breathing
    3) White noise
    4) Don't stay in bed for more than 15 minutes if sleep doesn't come
    5) Reasonably warm room temperature
    6) Very dark room
    7) No naps during the day
    8) Cardio as many times during the week as possible
     
  5. Dr. Rob

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    It totally varies on how disciplined I am with each item on the list. But no, sometimes even all of those things combined don't do the trick. That's why better life through chemistry comes into play at times.
     
  6. Nettdata

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    I think "meditation" is too underrated.

    I don't meditate so much as I'll go do something to unwind and let the brain spool down and think about nothing in particular.

    Most times, when the weather is nice, I'll grab a tea and head down to the dock and sit in a chair and just enjoy the lake for a half hour or so.

    By far, though, the thing that puts me to sleep the fastest is rainfall on the roof.

    Failing that, as Frylock mentioned, I also fall asleep in a flash when I have the TV on. I find that if I play episodes of News Radio I'm out in just a few minutes. I think it's because I've seen them so many times that they don't spark interest, and I don't think about them... it's just background noise.


    The really hard sleep nights come when I have a race the next day. That takes more work, as it's hard to overcome the anxiety and excitement of the next day's activities.

    In those cases, I have a set mental visualization routine that I go through to focus my mind on non-race things, and to enter a "mental model" I've created that facilitates sleep.

    There's a sports coach, Ross Bentley, who is part of my race team. He wrote the Speed Secrets series of books, and has done a ton of investigation into the mental aspects of sports.

    His Speed Secrets v6, called "The Perfect Driver", deals a lot with those mental aspects, and he offers some techniques for creating what he calls a "mental model", and offers advice on how you can train your brain to develop and use those models to your advantage.

    For instance, every time he sits in the car, he says "car dancing", and it sets his mental state to that of a logical driver, focusing you and stripping the emotions away. I do something like that as well, and it works wonders.

    That's what I've done to help me sleep the night before a race day. It's not perfect, but I've had excellent results by doing it.

    If it doesn't work, adding a little bit of melatonin will fix things. The only downside to melatonin, I've found, is that if you take a bit too much, you can be a bit spacey the next day.
     
  7. lust4life

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    The deep belly breathing is a really good technique when your mind is racing. I'll also use it for about 5 minutes before taking an exam and I find I'm much more focused. Instead of having white noise in the bedroom, I use foam earplugs when I sleep which helps turn off the outside world even further. I've been using them for years and now have a hard time falling to sleep without them. As for room temperature, the Mrs. and I prefer a cool/cold room and a nice comforter.

    We've both been told the same thing Dr. Rob mentioned about only using the bedroom for sleep and sex, but until we're empty-nesters, that's just not going to happen. Besides, our room has the better HDTV and the blu-ray player.
     
  8. thabucmaster

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    How much Melatonin do you guys generally take? Last night I couldn't sleep, and my roommate has a bottle of them. I took two, at 2 mg each, and it did fuckall for me... I was up until almost 3 AM. Of course, last night was one of the first nights in god knows how long that I didn't have a few cocktails before I went to bed, so I know that made it even worse... Damn this whole trying to be more responsible with my drinking.

    I took three tonight, so hopefully that does it... Plus a nightcap.

    Also, I find that I can hear my heart beating in my ears when I am trying to sleep, as well as a low rumbling like noise (just looked it up -- Tinnitus?). Drives me up a wall... Is that normal? It typically doesn't happen during the day, just when I am trying to go to sleep.
     
  9. Frank

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    No joke, I'll take 5 of the 10mg pills.
     
  10. StayFrosty

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    That's the problem with OTC sleep aids: Most of them don't work well, and the ones that do help you fall asleep leave you hungover the next day. There are actually claims from the American Sleep Association (or whatever the hell it's called) that you're almost better off going completely without sleep than taking some of the pills on the market.

    What's really fucked up is the occasional paradoxical reaction. A few years ago, I realized that it sometimes made me want to stay awake. When this happens, you get what's basically a buzz. You want to sleep, but you don't, you feel like you're moving underwater, and the slightest bit of sexual arousal makes you feel like your balls are about to explode with an intensity that would rival the Tsar Bomba. Oh, and then your legs start getting twitchy. It's like restless leg syndrome, but ten times worse, because you really want to sleep, but if you stop moving your legs for a nanosecond, you feel like you'll go mad if you don't start them moving again.

    In short, fuck sleep and its accompanying disorders.
     
  11. dugbrandon

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    I got out of bed because I couldn't sleep. I need to be up in 6 hours because I am taking the GRE tomorrow (this) morning. I took 10 mg worth of Melatonin about an hour ago when I got out of bed. I guess now I should try again to fall asleep. Stress from this test in the morning certainly isn't helping matters. Luckily I tend to function pretty normally even with a lack of sleep.
     
  12. RCGT

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    I took 5 of the 3mg melatonin pills at 1:43am, when I woke up after 3 hours of sleep. Then I took another 7 at 3am. It's now four in the morning and I'm still awake. Fuck me.
     
  13. Crazy Wolf

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    Melatonin's a hormone, is it not? You need to be taking it fairly consistently if you want to have a significant result.
     
  14. Nettdata

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    Not in my experience. I take it maybe 4 times a year to help fall asleep before big races, and it helps a lot. I don't take it regularly. Quite the opposite, I take it as little as I can.

    For that matter, I'd say that the less you take it, the more effective it will be when you do. It immediately affects your brain chemistry, and the brain has a tendency to adapt and adjust it's chemical levels quite easily, so I'd say the less you take it the more effective a smaller dose will have over time. (I could be wrong, but with the ex-wife's meds, she was always having them adjusted to take into account almost constant changes in her brain chemistry).

    Melatonin isn't a sleeping pill, it's not going to knock you out like some prescription sleeping pill. It's an assistant to helping you fall asleep.

    You still have to relax and set yourself up for sleep as best you can or it's not going to work.

    If there's some reason you're not falling asleep, like stress, or some other shit in your life, then you have to treat that stress before it'll do you much good.

    I mentioned it before, but a Pre Programmed Thought goes a long way to setting yourself up. The brain doesn't "not" focus on shit, it focuses on shit.

    For instance, the worst thing a coach can do to a driver before he goes out on track is say "don't hit shit". Because then the brain is thinking "hit shit".

    Think of positive, happy thoughts, and if you do it "deep" enough, it'll take over your thoughts in your brain and kick out the stressful stuff. Try winning the lottery, or the quiet zen of fly fishing, or something else you find relaxing. Imagine the details; the sun on your face, the wind tickling your nose, the smell of the water, the sound of the bugs, etc. The more detail you incorporate, the more real it becomes, and the more you'll become immersed in that situation. The more you do that, the better you'll get at it, and the easier it'll become.

    THAT is when the melatonin really helps... it'll really help put you over the edge into sleep at that point.

    At least in my experience, anyway. Your mileage may vary.
     
  15. Gramercy

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    You guys take a shitload of melatonin; I got some of the pills from Trader Joe's and they are .5mg. I've never taken more than 2 at a time, but since you guys binge on it, I may take more and see what happens.
     
  16. ghettoastronaut

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    Actually the best evidence to support melatonin is for short-term sleep disturbances, like jet lag. The evidence for long-term chronic use isn't so strong.

    But if you want to see something funny...

    Buscemi N, Vandermeer B, Pandya R, Hooton N, Tjosvold L, Hartling L. Melatonin for treatment of sleep disorders. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, 2004:290.
    Herxheimer A, Petrie KJ. Melatonin for the prevention and treatment of jet lag. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2002, Issue 2. Art. No.: CD001520. DOI: 10.1002/14651858.CD001520
    "Natural health product" is a code word for "I'm going to invent as many reasons as possible to use this, and see what sticks".
     
  17. A-Ron

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    For me, regular exercise (running, weights) works the best. Any day that I've been seriously concentrating on school work also makes it very easy to get to sleep. I also try to avoid watching TV or using my computer late at night, since the light from the monitor will keep me awake.

    As far as melatonin goes, from what I know it is released as a response to a lack of higher frequency (blue colored) light. So when the sun is going down and the light is almost entirely red, your pineal gland begins to secrete melatonin to make you fall asleep. This is why people who are up late at night on their computers have trouble sleeping. I hope that's useful.
     
  18. Dr. Rob

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    The NY Times is reporting on some research that empirically demonstrates improvement in sleep in the elderly (I'm guessing most people on this board are not, in fact, elderly, but I'd be shocked if the principles don't apply to all adults). The brief intervention they discuss emphasizes four major points:

    1) Reduce the time spent in bed that isn't for sleep
    2) Get up at the same time every day
    3) Don't go to bed until you feel sleepy
    4) Don't stay in bed if you're not sleepy

    I'm pretty sure we covered all of these somewhere in this thread. Ergo, the lesson is that we clearly don't need the Times for shit. Fuck them.
     
  19. Nettdata

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    They're doing what they can to let us know that.

    <a class="postlink" href="http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/03/23/nyt.paywall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/03/23/nyt.paywall/</a>