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How classy people get wasted

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DrFrylock, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. MoreCowbell

    MoreCowbell
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    Before saying this...I LOVE wine. While I'm not the sort to order wine at a bar, red wine is my favorite drink if I'm drinking at dinner or at home. So I harbor no anti-wine bias.

    That being said...the evidence doesn't really support what you suggest.

    There's actually significant empirical evidence that the average person cannot actually distinguish between cheap wine and expensive wine. For people without "wine training," there is no positive statistical correlation between wine price and enjoyment.


    The existence of a correlation once one gets "training" can be interpreted either way: perhaps one develops a more refined pallete...or perhaps one is merely being instructed in what wine is "supposed" to be good.

    Steven Levitt also did a little mini experiment of his own at a fancy-pants Harvard wine tasting that apparently embarassed the 'wine conosseuirs' in attendence:

    There appears to be significant evidence that the taste premium that people afford to pricey wines is largely about the taster's expectations. Which, to be fair, doesn't imply that it isn't "real" as far as their subjective experience, since taste can vary by context.
     
  2. Binary

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    That doesn't surprise me at all and is not relevant to what I said. You'd get the same result with many, many things in life. An "average person without training" is going to virtually always have trouble distinguishing between inexpensive and expensive options because most expensive options are hitting areas of significantly diminishing returns.

    Your average person is going to listen to two sets of speakers and have little, if any, opinion on which is better. Your average person could take two cars out to a racetrack and have trouble pinpointing differences between them. I disagree with the implication that getting experience in a subject area with guidance by other experts is negative, as if you were being inducted into some cult. Virtually every day we all gain experience in different areas, often being guided by experts - is every field you may have learned about, a narrow view that your mentors have ground into you until you accepted it?

    I've been to blind tastings where the cheap wine came out on top. I've also been to blind tastings where the expensive bottle blew everyone away. As I said before, I fully agree that cheap bottles can be excellent, but that doesn't mean that price and taste hold zero relation to each other.
     
  3. lhprop1

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    Drink what you enjoy. Whether it's a $6 bottle of Jacob's Creek or a $50 bottle of whatever costs $50 and you will be happy and that's what matters most.
     
  4. Binary

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    And that, right there, is the absolute truth of it. Everyone should drink what they like best.
     
  5. madamsquirrel

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    I try to keep it classy so I only get wasted on red wine. Cabernet, Merlot, Shiraz, Malbec are my favorites. I usually stick to the around $8-10 for home use (about 2-3 bottles a week) and $20-30 for bringing to someone else. I often try different ones and when I find a good bottle buy several more but continue to try others. I do not drink white at all. I agree with whoever said it tastes incomplete. Wine is usually my go to drink of choice because I am not supposed to drink at all for health reasons but wine can be argued that it may be good for you so it makes me feel better to only drink that. Oh and if you take the bag out of box wine it then becomes astronaut wine.
     
  6. shabamon

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    I'm not a big wine guy, but there are a few selections I enjoy. I absolutely love the pairing of a good sweet riesling or gawurztraminer with spicy Asian or Indian food. With reds, I enjoy malbec for its different layers and flavors and I like a spicy chianti for sipping.

    I'm much more into beer because I agree that the variety of distinguishable flavors is much higher. I do, however, admire the attention to detail winemakers and enthusiasts share. I used to live with a girl who was inducted into the international guild of sommeliers, or whatever it's called (she described it as having a badge that says she knows more than me), and I always found it interesting to hear her talk about the importance of a winery's climate, altitude, and soil and how those tend to play a much larger role in ensuring a quality product than is the case with beer.
     
  7. Nettdata

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    Yep. I've said this before, many times. I don't care whether it's a Mike's Hard Lemonade, or a beer, or a Harvey Wallbanger, or wine. If you like it, enjoy it. Who gives a fuck if it's $2 Chuck or a Chateauneuf de pop priced at a few hundred bucks.
     
  8. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    Educate me. I know I don't usually drink the stuff, but I have been told by a few people that wine bars are the most fun bars to go to nowadays. Thoughts from the experienced?
     
  9. tweetybird

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    We did a champagne tasting at home once. 7 bottles, all paper bagged and randomly numbered. Almost everyone had a different favorite. However, I was also the only one who listed my most favorite to least favorite in exact price order. Moral of the story? 1) everyone has a different opinion/taste and 2) apparently you cannot take the snob out of me, it is fundamentally ingrained.

    In other shocking news, I am a champagne/prosecco/cava whore. Bubbles make everything more festive! The most gobsmackingly good champagne I've ever had was Krug Grand Cuvee (the cheapeast kind they make, as it's nonvintage). The stuff goes for $100+ a bottle. I would never have thought to purchase it, but it was paired with one of the dishes on a tasting menu we had on our honeymoon and it shocked me exactly how different and good it was. Forevermore the ultimate luxury to me will be a glass of Krug.
     
  10. Nettdata

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    It's hard to find a good wine bar in London, but hit up Garlics. I know the owner, and he tries to go out of his way to introduce good, reasonably priced wine to his patrons by hosting wine tasting events. He also realizes that price matters (his way of saying the city is cheap), so he sells good wine at almost cost to try and improve the selection.

    And that is really the best way to approach it... go to a wine tasting event, where you'll be exposed to a bunch of different wines side by side, and hopefully get some explanation of what it is you're drinking. It's easier and more fun to learn about wine a half glass at a time than a bottle at a time.

    You don't have to become a professor about it or anything, you can just say "like that" or "don't like that". Most tastings I've been to start with a very broad sample in your first course, and after you figure out what you liked, they narrow it down to a few more samples that are similar, but different.

    It's no different than a good beer tasting, really.

    The other way to do it is to have some friends over for a dinner party or something where everyone brings a different bottle of wine and you do it on your own.
     
  11. Noland

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    If you don't mind spending a little bit of money, go find a wine shop and talk to the people there. My experience with them in several different places has always been positive and I have never had one of them be condescending to me.

    Tell them you're a newbie and you need some suggestions. Come with a menu idea in your head. A good well paired wine can turn a good meal a great meal.
     
  12. ghettoastronaut

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    Pardon me, sir, but it is spelled Châteauneuf-du-Pape.

    Me, I like wine, although pretty much only red wine. I've had one white wine that I liked and sadly had no idea what it was. Otherwise they're useful for cooking, or fondues, intoxicating the womenfolk, and letting me make jokes about guys who drink white wine. Sadly with the hot weather arriving it's not exactly red wine season so I haven't been drinking so much of it lately.

    I like to go for cheaper wine and find something good. As a general rule I'll buy wine in the $10-15 bottle range on a whim, and $15-20 range if I suspect it's going to be good. I will only go over $20 for special occasions, and usually only if I have a reliable recommendation that it's going to be worth it.

    As for what kind of wine, I'm partial to anything sangiovese. Any straight-up sangiovese, or something predominantly sangiovese like rosso di montalcino (the cheap version of brunello di montalcino) is perfectly good in my book. I also dig Australian shirazes. Had one by langmeil that fucking blew me away. Otherwise, have a look for anything from the Goats Do Roam winery out of South Africa (darn good wines with silly labels at good prices), and Fat Bastard is pretty good for cheap plonk. The Zuccardi family winery also had some really good stuff with their Fuzion line of malbec. There's the original Fuzion (the first vintage of it was ludicrously good for $8 a bottle), and now they have some reserves and altas and whatever else which are still on the cheap end and pretty good.
     
  13. Nettdata

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    And therein lies the joke.
     
  14. MoreCowbell

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    When you say you usually don't drink the stuff...to what degree is that true? Do you know, for example, what a shiraz tastes like vs. a cabernet? One of the first orders of business might be figuring out which sorts you tend to like or not like before focusing on specific wines, since it'd be a shame to conclude one doesn't like red wine merely because one doesn't like cabernet. Preferably more than one example for each variety, so you don't get biased by a stinker.

    As Nett said, wine tastings can be really good for this, because of the numbers. They can also give you the opportunity to try multiple regions and see if there are any that particular tickle your fancy.

    This is hugely helpful, because walking into a store and seeing shelf after shelf of wines can be super intimidating. At least this will help you narrow it down a bit.
     
  15. guernica

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    Put me in the "not a wine drinker" category. However, in Europe, a bottle of red is usually provided with dinner, so I "forced" myself to drink some in order to save a little money, being the poor backpacker that I am. I found that the 2nd glass went down a lot better than the 1st. After a while I can say my percepttion towards wine has changed a little, to the extent where I'm considering challenging myself to try it some more once I get home. This is definitely a thought I wouldn't have considered before taking this trip.

    Can't handle white at all. I'd rather stay sober
     
  16. toejam

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    This is the simplest, and probably best piece of advice for any aspiring wine drinkers on the board. The only way to learn wine is to try as much of it as possible. So go to the store, get a few bottles, and see what you like. Try to remember what it was about the wine you liked, and tell that to the salesperson the next time. Don't just buy the same bottle. Get a recommendation based on the qualities you enjoyed.

    Wine is diverse, and you never know what you'll enjoy before you try it. Lots of people pigeonhole themselves because they're afraid to try something new. Forget that, if you waste $13 and discover that you don't like the grapefruit/cat pee flavor combo of a lot of New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs, great, you learned something new.

    I'm absolutely not a wine expert, but I grew up with a family that loves and appreciates wine, and I'm fortunate enough to have tried a lot of it. Any wine can be a good wine, and you can definitely count me in the "you don't need to spend more than $10-20 for a good bottle" camp. Honestly, even anything over $15 is more than I want to spend unless it's a special occasion.
     
  17. Dcc001

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    I haven't read the middle two pages of this thread, but put me down as one of those people who gets a blinding headache from drinking red wine.

    I've posted about this before, but I order a glass of wine at functions to be polite. If one person announces they aren't drinking it really throws off the group dynamic. Suddenly two or three more people announce it, and people refrain from ordering a second or third drink. I always go for a sweet white - like a Riesling - because although I don't enjoy the taste hugely and won't typically drink the whole glass, it's tolerable.

    But reds? Fuck reds. I have a migraine in under an hour of taking a sip. You mean I get a massive headache AND it tastes bad? Sign me up! /sarcasm

    To each their own, though. Wine makes a good hostess gift.
     
  18. Beefy Phil

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  19. KillaKam

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    Put me in the non wine drinker ranks. It's just something I've tried before and just couldn't get into like I do with beer and certain liqours. My sister, mother, and a lot of family are big on wine so if I ever do decide to try it again I plan on going to them for their knowledge and tastes.

    My one experience with being trashed on wine was a bad one...and it was at an Olive Garden for christ sakes. I didn't want to leave my bed for days.
     
  20. Trakiel

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    Call me Caitlyn. Got any cake?

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    It's taken me 30 or so years but I've finally gotten to acquiring a taste for wine. I pretty much stick to reds; merlots, cabernet sauvignons, and pinot noirs are the ones I enjoy the most. I don't care for shiraz and I haven't drunk enough malbecs to form an opinion yet.

    Damn, now I have the urge to have a glass right now.

    Edit: Sonofabitch, the only bottles I have left are ones I don't want to open. Gotta remember to buy some tomorrow.