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Hey honey, I'm taking a Free Day! Be home by midnight!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Samr, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. Dcc001

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    Scootah, how much of this boils down to the individual's ability to separate love and sex, do you think? Would you agree that all the different scenarios you've described are only possible if both partners have the marked ability to set the two apart? It appears that - beyond the caveman "me Tarzan, you Jane" possessiveness of their SO some of the guys on the board admit to - the argument comes down to "Sex will make the other person fall in love with someone else," versus "Negotiated sexual exploits can enhance a relationship if both partners are willing."

    I think you approach it from the separation perspective, whereas someone like WickedBitch is not so easily able to delineate the two.
     
  2. scootah

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    Well yeah, if you see Sex and Love as intrinsically insepparable concepts then clearly there's going to be a problem. But given this particular board's take on casual sex - I'm not sure how you rationally reconcile seeing sex and love as insepparable.

    I'm sure there are some people here who've only ever had sex with people they either loved or at least cared about enough to hope that love was growing. But I certainly don't think they're a majority of the people reading this post. Or a majority of the people who attend any recognised college or university. There's just some kind of thought transition when someone loves the person they're having sex with for a long time - suddenly they seem to lose track of the fact that they fucked (or at least fantasized about fucking) like bunnies for years or decades before this relationship - without feeling anything more intense than affection and friendship. Add that to all the normal insecurities that everyone has about themselves as a lover or a loved one and the possibility that the new person that your partner might interact with might be better than you or free of the flaws that you worry about and you end up with a lot of monogamy.
     
  3. Dcc001

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    True, and I didn't mean to suggest that a whole section of the board has only ever slept with people they were deeply in love with. Most of us have had one-nighters or random FBs that we saw once every few weeks and then lost track of without too much concern.

    The point I was trying to make was more along the lines of once you're in what you and your partner deem to be a committed relationship, can you then separate love and sex? Personally, I would argue yes. I've been "the other woman" too many times to have any delusions that men can and do deeply love their wives while at the same time having sexual desire that they act on with other women. It doesn't mean they love their wives any less, or that their interactions with their mistresses are any less valid, just that people are complicated and nothing is black and white.

    The argument comes I think because other people don't see it that way. They see a committed relationship and equate love and sex and that's it, done. I dunno...this is just me theorizing about why some are perfectly fine with negotiated infidelity (or plain old infidelity) and for others it's a dealbreaker.
     
  4. scootah

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    It's more a question of can you view sex and love objectively or is your response to this question determined by cultural preconceptions and emotional insecurity?

    I personally, and I think a lot of people around this forum will instinctively view the objective answer as the correct one and dismiss a cultural preconception and emotional insecurity tainted answer as incorrect. And a lot of people who use this forum will then try and reinforce their cognitive biases by trying to cram sex = love into an objective rationalization. Which is kind of pointless - it doesn't work - but it's too culturally ingrained for a lot, possibly even most people to practically change.
     
  5. Chellie

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    I'm not surprised at how many of the men on the board are reacting by saying that they couldn't deal with their woman getting the same kind of strange in that situation. Theoretically, from a pure, evolutionary biology stand point, this concept should be easier for women to deal with.

    To use broad strokes, women's issue with infidelity is that they are afraid of the emotional betrayal of their man screwing around and potentially falling for someone else. But in the last few decades, women are starting to treat sex more and more casually, and starting to see that there doesn't always need to be romantic feelings involved in fucking.

    Men, on the other hand, tend to be more upset by the physical betrayal, and the sex act itself. There is no amount of cultural awareness that can change the fact that someone else is balls deep in your wife's orifices.

    Still, all considered, life is not just evolution, and most people don't easily into convenient categories. I think it's the rare person that can sit at home one night, and be ok with the fact that someone else is fucking their SO.
     
  6. Disgustipated

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    But this can happen in a situation that doesn't involve sex. It could just be that the guy next door says hello to you nicer than the person you're living with. I think, if anything, because women tend to apply a deeper emotional meaning to sex than men do (on the average), it's just going to show up more.

    I think this situation would more be a case of bringing the deficiencies of, or the lack of satisfaction with, the current relationship to the fore than anything else. The closer you were to being completely happy with your partner, the less this would be an issue. After that, it's just looking for any excuse to jump ship isn't it?
     
  7. Disgustipated

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    I think I can sum this up in very, very broad strokes genetic disposition:

    - Women are designed to find the best possible genetic mate, breed with them and hold onto them for dear life (ensuring continued strong offspring, protection and denial of opportunity to mate to all the other women).

    - Men are designed to spread their DNA as far and wide as possible, fucking anything that moves and keeping going until the going's gone. Also, a knocked up women isn't able to breed with another man. By keeping a bun in as many ovens as possible, he denies other men the opportunity to pass on their genes.

    Or, it could just be my deluded rationalisation of why I should get to screw every female who looks attractive to me...
     
  8. Dcc001

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    From a male evolutionary perspective, then, why be in a relationship at all? If spreading the seed is the ultimate goal, why not forgo the whole 'committed' thing and all the hassle it entails and just fuck everything you can?
     
  9. CharlesJohnson

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    I think it boils down to certain women of high value not giving up the pink taco unless certain stipulations concerning comfort, care, child support are addressed. Granted, once the guy shoots his web he can disappear, but if he wants to continue to hit it, or continue to procreate with a genetically fit partner, he's got to fulfill a particular role. Also take into account the social status of having such a parter. Nothing gets a dude more hot chicks like having a hot chick waiting back in the cave. If the village slors take him for a cad, they may not want to mate with him. He has to be clandestine.
     
  10. Disgustipated

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    Because evolution encompasses more than biology. Society, religion and nurture are the reasons why. We may be seeing some change to that now, but up until 40 years ago in a Western context the nuclear family was the expected thing.

    Still is today, but it's constantly eroding.
     
  11. Politik

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    I've had a girl who was secretly dating some other dude while fucking me on the side. She never disclosed this to either of us and I told her to fuck off. The dude she strung on swept her back up despite knowing I had been laying pipe in her the entire time he was taking her on dates and shit. Maybe I'm a romantic but I do find sex and intimacy deeply intertwined and could NEVER, EVER live knowing my SO, the girl I trust more, care about more and love more than any other female in the world, is fucking different guys. I've done both the committed relationship gig and the extreme random hook ups thing. No matter how many times I fucked my long-term (4ish years) girlfriend she still had blonde hair, big tits, incredible eyes and I was deeply attracted to her personality. Evolutionary biology does not need to run your life.
     
  12. Kubla Kahn

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    This basically sums up my thoughts. As much as everyone postures on here every now and again about wanting to bang out one nighters. It seems that when ever the subject of meaningful quality sex comes up the majority consensus is that this happens with SO's in healthy loving relationships. This is why I don't think there is a total detachment between sex and love. It doesn't have to be one way or the other either. It seems that the two biggest differences argued here are between sex while in a loving relationship and sex without a relationship. I also am having a hard time with the pure evolutionary biology argument as it seems to leave out huge chunks of information to come to it's conclusions.
     
  13. Roxanne

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    I don't think this is anything new. I believe they call it "being French."

    I could do it. I think whatever marriage I get into will eventually fall into something like this. I'm very honest about things I want out of a relationship, and honest about the nature of other people. If I'm confident that my husband loves me, then him sticking his dick in another girl isn't going to kill me. Like it's been stated before, it's the emotional betrayal that would be the death of our marriage, not a casual fling.

    And the same ought to go for me. I find myself to be immensely curious about every guy I meet, and I always want my curiosity satisfied. But once it is, it's pretty much done. As long as I'm emotionally fulfilled, I don't think I'll be out looking for people to fall in love with, so I imagine the sex with other people will just be sex.

    I would rather that my husband have a fling here and there (and vice versa) than we grow bitter toward each other for 'holding one another back.' There may be things that he wants sexually that I can't provide, and maybe he just won't be comfortable keeping a torture dungeon in our basement if we have kids together. So if we find that stuff elsewhere, what's the big deal? As long as you're coming home to each other at the end of the night, still in love, it's all good with me.
     
  14. Frebis

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    Are you saying that you fuck every guy you meet? I don't think you are going to have to worry much about getting married.
     
  15. shegirl

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    Fuck that shit. We exchanged vows and rings. I am yours and you're mine through good and bad times. If it turns to shit we'll divorce. I know full well I am not the type to share much, let alone my man. I'd do everything in my power to keep him happy in the bedroom. I know he'd keep me happy because I married him. If he wants more than I can give and it's making us miserable, why not just be done? I won't even go into kids because it'll never happen to me.

    If you're one to roam then roam, don't marry unless it's addressed prior and both parties agree. Even then I'm skeptical. Sure it works for some but in comparison they are the minority I believe. Maybe Scootah could correct me if that's wrong.
     
  16. Lye

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    Even though evolutionary psychology has been popularized by the seduction community, and books like Sperm Wars and websites like this one, it's important to remember that there's more to it than just sex. There are other evolutionary urges besides the urge to reproduce, like the instinct for self-preservation, and the instinct to protect one's children, both of which are arguably more powerful than the sex drive.

    Think about all the people you know who were raised by single mothers, versus those who had complete and stable families. Or just look at the statistics. Sure, there are exceptions, but across the board people with both parents are in every way better off. And that's assuming that nothing happens to the mother, which of course is far from certain and even today is a disaster for the kid. And people didn't evolve in liberal, technological societies.

    There's a reason you can find monogamous relationships, whether temporary or lifelong, all throughout the animal kingdom. It's not common, but it's far from unheard of. It's a reliable, effective strategy for protecting one's offspring (one's genes) - often the most effective. If you leaf through your copy of Sperm Wars, a pretty sizable portion deals with this. Not that you should be taking Sperm Wars too seriously, but I won't harp on that today.

    Most women do want and demand committed relationships, yes, but that's not enough to explain it. Men fall in love too - we WANT relationships. For a lot of the same reasons women do.

    It's complicated. This post barely touches the evolutionary urges that keep people together, or drive them apart. But summed up: spreading your seed isn't ALL it's about.
     
  17. jennitalia

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    No way, no how will this ever be happening in any relationship I am in. The thought of my boyfriend with another girl makes me sick and I can guarantee he would feel the same about me fucking somebody else. When you really love somebody I personally can't see how you can even think about opening up your relationship to anyone else.
     
  18. NMW

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    My wife is out with another guy right now. We've had an open relationship for the past few years and it works for us. I know she loves me, she knows I love her, it works for us.
     
  19. Supertramp

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    That fact that you had to repeat that it works for you twice tells us all we have to know.

    But in all honesty, if you don't mind sharing, how did this come about? Were you open before marriage? Since the start of the relationship? Any discrepancies and struggles?
     
  20. NMW

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    I'll answer anything, I'm not shy.

    I'm 34 and my wife is 32, we started dating 18 years ago and have been married for 12, so experience with other people was obviously something we lacked. About 5 years ago we both started to get the urge to be with other people, to experience something else. We started off with threesomes but it wasn't really taking the urge away since we were still basically sleeping with each other. I brought it up one day with her and she was all for it. For us it really is the perfect situation.

    Nope. See above.

    None. We have a few rules and as long as we follow them all will be good.