This was a fairly popular thread back on the old board. I think it would be a cross over well. I'm curious to know what everyone else is using as far as cleaning and maintenance supplies go. Right now I'm using a mix of products. For actual gun cleaner and copper removal I'm using M7 products. For oil and brushes, I'm using Hoppes. For the patches I'm using Southern Bloomer cotton patches because they offer a better surface area than the shitty Hoppes gun patches. Any recommendations other than what I'm using?
Re: Guns and AmmoThread CLP, CLP, and a little CLP. Nice call on the Southern Bloomers patches. They do a hell of a lot better than Hoppes or cut up old t-shirts. Does anybody use bore brushes much? I've used copper and nylon (I think, plastic, whatever) before. Never used them much though, just because I can't get over the whole possibility of gauging the bore.
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge with this beast? I'd like to get one later on. Maybe next year. I've read the reviews but, I'd like to talk to someone who has/had one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPAS-12 Thanks in advance.
Just curious: why would you want to be able to switch between semi-auto and pump? I can't see any advantage to this outside of a tactical use for the weapon.
Honestly, I think it looks completely bad-ass. I'm planning on moving to Alaska next year and increasing my collection to another handgun, a couple of rifles (haven't decided which) and maybe a couple of shotguns. I like the idea of a semi-auto shotgun, but have never fired one. Also, since they aren't importing them anymore they're just gonna go up in price.
It just doesn't make sense to me to have a shotgun that goes from semi-auto to pump. Have you checked out Saiga's? They're Russian, based on the AK-47 platform. I have several friends with them, totally badass and there are tons of accessories for them. Link to the company homepage: http://www.raacfirearms.com/shotguns.htm How badass you can make them: http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm I've seen 20 round drum mags for these things.
Re: Guns and AmmoThread I have a Glock 19 that I have only ever used the nylon/plastic bore brush. I bought it from a friend who owns a Range/Gun Shop and he suggested to only use the plastic brush that came with it. He said that when you use the copper brushes it creates a metal on metal contact that can screw up the rifling. I have seen some bore snakes for pistols. Has anyone ever had much luck cleaning pistols with them?
Re: Guns and AmmoThread There was a recent post about that on the old board, to the effect that it's hard to keep the bore snake clean. All you end up doing is pulling the same old crap through your barrel. Also it was mentioned to make sure you check the pull string every time, as someone had it snap with the snake in the middle of the bore, and it was nearly impossible to get out. I use brushes occasionally. Nylon won't hurt your bore, it's way too soft. Bronze brushes shouldn't hurt your bore in theory, since bronze is softer than steel. In actual practice, I don't know. I prefer the nylon ones because Hoppe's reacts with the bronze brushes. I do all my cleaning with Hoppe's (and I love the smell). For lubrication, I use either Hoppe's lubricating oil, Mobil1 5w-30, or in very limited applications some good old moly grease. I also keep a few of the silicone treated gun rags around to wipe down the outside of my carry pieces every few days.
Re: Guns and AmmoThread This is wrong. A copper brush will not scratch the bore at all. Over time, a minute amount of wear will appear on the crown of the barrel, however this only concerns those who are looking for the ultimate in accuracy. The greatest error I see in cleaning is not using a bore guide.
Re: Guns and AmmoThread I always wondered that myself. My Glock 23 came with a nylon brush, so that's all I've ever used for it. I do have a copper brush, but it's still in the package. I don't know why I'm so worried about it-hell, a friend of mine didn't clean his Glock 19 from 2002-2007 and probably ran 300 bullets through it in that time. At least I take the time to clean and lubricate mine.
[/quote]It just doesn't make sense to me to have a shotgun that goes from semi-auto to pump. Have you checked out Saiga's? They're Russian, based on the AK-47 platform. I have several friends with them, totally badass and there are tons of accessories for them. Link to the company homepage: http://www.raacfirearms.com/shotguns.htm How badass you can make them: http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm I've seen 20 round drum mags for these things.[/quote] I have seen this gun in a store that I go into occasionally. I thought is looked cheap. Are you saying that it can get through a mag. and be somewhat reliable? If so, I'm surprised and a bit interested. It's not that expensive. It would be a "cool' kind of weapon to shoot once in a while and keep for fun.
A couple of things: 1) Since they are now "banned", you pay a massive premium for these weapons. When new, they retailed for 300 bucks. 2) They older, lever safety weapons are prone to go off when the safety is engaged. Think about that for a second. 3) They are straight complicated. The pump won't cycle unless a bunch of conditions are in place with the gun, and the gun won't switch to fire unless some other conditions are met. It can be learned, but for a home defense gun, it isn't a grab-and-go-bang kind of shotgun. Yes, they look bad ass. There are a lot cooler looking shotguns out there, in my opinion. Ones that you could actually go hunting with.
I've fired two. The 12 gauge and the 410. Both seemed reliable enough to me, and I've heard no complaints from the owners. If you're willing to drop some extra cash on extra's, you can make them pretty badass. If you don't absolutely have to have a semi-auto, you can convert both the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 into damn awesome assault shotguns. I'm partial to the 870 myself, but they're both pump action.
I found an old used Mossberg 500 at a gun show for $100. Cleaned it up, replaced the safety button which was broken, bought a replacement stock real cheap, and now have a really nice home defense gun. There are so many cheap accessories out there for the Mossy 500s that you can do anything to them. Pick up replacement barrels for $80 and you can use the same gun for home defense, bird hunting, trap/skeet, or deer hunting. Barrels swap out in a matter of seconds. The action is simple, rugged and reliable. The one thing I will say to look out for is the newer cheap versions of the 500 only have a single transfer bar (the linkage from the forend which you pump to the action). You want one with the dual transfer bars.
BrianH is pretty dead on. Just as a disclaimer I have never owned one, just know 2nd hand about these. The biggest issue for me is the complexity. For me the big selling point on any type of tactical shot gun is its elegance because of its simplicity and reliability. Even semi shotguns lose some its simplicity and reliability(how many times have you seen a semi fail to clear?... how about a quality pump?) Why would you want a gun that is capable of switching from semi to pump? Add a ton of components that can malfunction for the feature seems dumb. Within its effective range a tactical shotgun is a very very effective weapon. It also comes with some serious drawbacks. Contrary to popular movie lore a shotgun is not a "point in the general direction and pull trigger" type of weapon. The internal magazines are all limited to 7-8 rounds. I don't really see the attractiveness of a complex weapon that has the ability to empty its limited ammo capacity quickly. Just get a good tactical pump action... then shoot the shit out of it and I think you will be happy. My personal preference is a Mossberg. The only reason I favor a Mossberg over a Remington 870 is because of the safety placement and that's only a personal preference.
If you do get a mossberg, switch out the safety button for one of these: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=864355 Sure, it's almost $20, but it's a big improvement over the plastic ones which have a habit of breaking. Whatever you get, check out Midway for parts and accessories, they have a huge selection for the Mossberg 500 and Rem 870
What do you guys think about a replacement hand guard with an embedded light for home defense? http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4160 ... EAPONLIGHT It's a little pricey but looks like a good idea. Popping a round in the barrel and putting a light in someones face should get them backtracking in no time I would think.
Ditto on what BrianH told you. The purpose of the SPAS-12 was to look mean, not to work well. Try to find the Franchi SAS-12 instead, if looks are that important. It's a straight up pump-action, and the one I used to have never gave me any grief. Mechanically anyway. It was a real bitch, however, when a friend of mine turned out to be a thief who liked it more than I did.