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Game Of Thrones - Book/TV discussions - WITH SPOILERS

Discussion in 'Pop Culture Board' started by Nettdata, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Parker

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  2. The Village Idiot

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    This is precisely what I was afraid of. Early on in the series, I would not have been so worried, as the producers/writers were painstaking in their homage to the books. Given the recent seasons (and some really, really cheap hack moves that deviated from the books greatly), I'm now concerned that the tv series - written by people that are no where near Martin in storytelling prowess if their deviations are any indication - may well drive the ending.

    The reason I say this is because though Martin has told them how he 'plans' to end the books, Martin has notoriously changed and rewritten things in the books. Let's not forget, this was supposed to a series of three books that has ballooned into 7 (and justifiably so) because the story changed. Frankly, if Martin does finish up Book 6 this year, I'd put filming on hiatus until he finished Book 7.

    I have zero faith in the writers telling the story better than Martin.
     
  3. AbsentMindedProf

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    I wouldn't say I have zero faith in shows creators to continue creating a great show, but I know it won't be as good without the books guiding the way. I think that Martin will probably become more involved in the show after this season which would be a good thing for the show. Not so much for those of us who prefer to read the ending of the series first. If you've been a fan of the series since AFFC you had to see this coming though. It's disappointing that I have to watch the conclusion of this epic as opposed to reading it, but I'm going to try to not let that damper my enjoyment of the show.
     
  4. Kampf Trinker

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    Even if he finished book 6 this year it could easily take him another 5 or 6 years to get book 7 done. It would be kind of hard to pull all the actors together again after such a long hiatus. Swapping out actors for a minor character here and there is fine, but doing it with half the cast for only one last season would be a mess.

    I completely agree on the writers not being on Martin's level. Some of the changes in the series were ok. I didn't mind Talisa being a more significant character than Jeyne Westerling, but others have just been way off. They botched the last scene with Tyrion and Tywin last season by leaving out a key reveal in Tyrion's conversation with Jaime. They totally screwed up the Tyrion/Shae story line by creating a completely different kind of relationship, but then deciding to drive it to the same conclusion.

    I'm sure they're decent writers, but Martin is up there with Tolkien and I'd rather they stick to the source material when the deviations aren't necessary for filming. More importantly I just really wanted to finish the story by reading it rather than seeing it spin off in it's own direction as a tv show. This really sucks.
     
  5. Parker

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  6. AbsentMindedProf

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    I don't know if bitter is the right word, but he seems more motivated now that it's obvious the show is going to pass the books. My only gripe about the show catching up is that it seems to be slightly disrespectful to the readers who made the books such a success, and without that support there is no show. For Martin to then let the show become more important than the books just seemed like a shitty move. I don't think Martin meant for that to happen, but he absolutely got caught up in the hype of the shows, and the adulation it brought him. Can't really blame him though who wouldn't have got caught up in that hype.
     
  7. Parker

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    Yeah, it's going to be unfortunate in a way, but there is a way the books will add so much more texture to the story. The TV show is Game of Thrones Lite and awhile good, the books are really damn interesting and will be.

    GRRM definitely rushed that last chapter out though. There were even weird spelling errors. Also for him to suddenly say "I have a new twist that can't be in the show!" is definitely him reacting to the fast pace of the show. He expected to have more time and didn't. What I'm really looking forward to is Village Idiot raging at the gross changes that's going to happen. WHERE ARE YOU VI?
     
  8. Nettdata

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    I think he just lacked the foresight to understand the differing time requirements between doing a seasonal TV show and the books. With the books, he could take however long he wanted, and it was released when he wanted, but the TV/HBO show is "X episodes at This Date, every year". I'm thinking the TV show caught up faster than he was expecting, and he was more involved with the show than expected, which just took away his book-writing time.

    And I'm not sure I care about the TV show being different than the books... I kind of treat them both as the separate entities that they are; there's obviously going to be so much more detail in the books, and that means that the show will be edited/rewritten slightly anyway to deal with an hour-long show format as it is, and once you go a little off the books I don't really care how much more you go.

    To me a visual experience is different from a reading one, and I have no problem compartmentalizing the two without any angst or bitterness.
     
  9. The Village Idiot

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    I don't think George is bitter about anything. Frankly, as I've been saying all along, anyone who follows these books as long as I have (I read GoT back in 99) knows the following:

    Martin rewrites and changes things constantly. For a more recent example, let's look at the much maligned AFfC and DoD scenario. So what happened? George wrote way too much material for one book. So he decides to split it (in a very strange way). But here's my point: even with 2/3 of DoD already written, you'd have expected DoD to come out fairly soon. Of course, you'd be incorrect. Why? He went back and fucking rewrote the stuff he already had, in essence throwing out what he already had written/rewritten/edited/rewritten again/reedited again for AFfC. This has been Martin's process from the get go.

    My issue with the books following the show is the influence the show writers will have, mostly because it will be difficult for Martin to deviate too much from the show, and given that he's already referencing twists not in the show, I suspect the stories will diverge even more dramatically. I want to read A Song of Ice and Fire by George RR Martin, not 'Disney World Presents A Show Somewhat Similar in Some Respects to A Song of Ice and Fire Which Will Deviate in the Interests of Commercialization' by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss.

    I always find it a bit fraudulent - in movies or tv - to adapt a book and then rewrite it for whatever reason. As someone pointed out - the readers made this show possible. So yes, a bit raging, but it comes down to this: If you don't like the story in total, don't fucking adapt it, or write a better one. That hasn't happened here.
     
  10. Juice

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    Some stories just dont translate well from one medium to another. One thing thats always missing when a book is adapted is the internal monologue of the characters, that always removes a dimension of the story that cannot be captured otherwise unless you have a voice-over. Thus, fundamental structural changes are needed to fit the format. The Shining is another perfect example. Stanley Kubrick's adaptation, while arguably one of the greatest movies ever, is a pretty shitty adaptation of the source material and Stephen King had no qualms expressing his feelings toward it. He even adapted his own version in the late 90s for a TV movie. And while true his material, it sucked ass.

    GOT is similar. Martin knew he was giving up some kind of creative license when he signed on with HBO. They dont give you a number on a contract with 7+ zeros behind it without making him relinquish some creative power. And for good reason, hes not a showrunner. Hes a guy in his 70s that writes the books in a fucking DOS program. He even went as far as mapping out the entire rest of the story for the show's producers in case he dies before the books are finished (which is almost a moot point if the show finishes before he writes them anyway). I've read a few of the books, not quite all yet, but as someone who is 100% caught up with the Walking Dead comics, there are so many changes to the story in the show compared to the comics its almost unrecognizable. And Nett made a good point, you need to take them as two adaptions of the same thing and look at them in a vacuum.

    Or as another theory I read stated, look at them the way people should be looking at the Mad Max series. That series is supposed to viewed as many different interpretations of the legend of that character, not sequential cannon. GOT can be also looked at as two different tellings of the same story. It wouldnt surprise me if the end is someone telling the entire tale around a campfire a few hundred years in the future. Just my $0.02.
     
    #290 Juice, Apr 14, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  11. Kubla Kahn

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    I can see why book fans will be upset when the show's creators add new material the books don't or will never have. Having read the first three books and watched the show it seems like the show runners ideas for the series doesn't deviate much from the source material unlike say The Shining or Starship Troopers did from theirs. For the most part I am willing to give movie makers much more leniency if one, they are super talented like Kubrick, or two made make no bones about wanting to create a different experience ala Starship Troopers. So far the changes made in the show have been mostly needed condensing and formatting changes and have worked out great. To not catch shit they'll have to make at least equally compelling stories as the stories from the books. I won't mind if the show's version of say Dany has different themes and motivations as long as it is as compelling as the ones in the books.
     
  12. Parker

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    Holy fucksticks. They changed so much, all the changes make sense to keep the TV viewer from losing their shit. I knew Jamie was going to Dorne, really excited for more Bronn. Having Brienne actually run into and talk to Sansa/Littlefinger was not expected. The little change to Jon's story make sense given they want to keep him pretty much squeaky clean, no need to plot him becoming Lord Commander. It's weird to finally watch this show and really not know HOW certain things are going to happen. The WHAT really isn't changing, but its fun to be along for the ride.
     
  13. CanisDirus

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    Yep. You're right when you're right.
     
  14. Parker

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    Ian McShane just got cast for Season 6. I could not be fucking happier. Not sure what role he is yet, but any role is the perfect role for him. Glad to see that man working.
     
  15. Improper

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    Me too, Parker. Very charismatic guy.

    Brace for a huge new torrent of "cocksucker" memes. With swords now!
     
  16. whathasbeenseen

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    Begin derailment /

    You guys see him in Ray Donovan? Fantastic

    /derailment
     
  17. Aetius

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    http://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html

    tl;dr: Martin's publishers lied to him about their schedule so that even if he missed the deadline they gave him by a full two months, they'd still be able to get it out on time, and he missed even that extended deadline. And is still (optimistically) months away from completing TWOW.
     
  18. Kubla Kahn

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    Well hopefully we get the next book within the year. I just finished Dance and am hoping against hope some of the material they skipped in that book make it into the show. I am hoping Ian Mcshane turns up as either the Crow's eye or Victorian. Some of the stuff needed to be cut, like Prince Doran's son's whole story.
     
  19. Kampf Trinker

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    I think that was the main complaint with books 4 and 5 in general. So many side plots could have been tossed or condensed. Personally, I didn't mind it that much. Martin is like Stephen King to me. Even if he gets long winded and side tracked I still find it entertaining. I hope that if/when the show finishes before the books he doesn't have to change his original ending because the show already used it.

    This shit has been getting slower with each subsequent book. I wonder if it's him getting older or the pressure of it's popularity and expectations are making him overthink his writing. Whatever the case, he needs to lock himself in a cabin and lay off his other projects for awhile. For a lot of readers it's the best fantasy series ever written. It would be a real shame if he didn't finish it.
     
  20. wexton

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