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Game Of Thrones - Book/TV discussions - WITH SPOILERS

Discussion in 'Pop Culture Board' started by Nettdata, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Nettdata

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    This thread is to discuss the GoT series of books, and maybe how they relate to the future of the series.

    It's meant to be full of spoilers, without the need to spoiler everything, so if you don't want to be spoilered, stop reading now.
     
  2. Trakiel

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    After reading ADWD I'm feeling ambivalent toward the next book. I'll try to sum up my concerns:

    -It seems as though the series is getting too big for Martin to keep his arms around. There's just so much going on that I don't know how he's going to be able to address everything in a single book with the detail and nuance we've become accustommed too. Unless he starts converging a lot of the distinct narratives forcoming books are either going to focus on a view characters while leaving out others or giving every character only a chapter or two. Neither is satisfying.

    -I'm getting tired of all the cliffhangers. I'm even more worried that cliffhangers he's introduced won't get a proper resolution, like with Brianne. That was terrible. I absolutely want to see the immediate aftermath of Jon's supposed death and Dany's encounter with the Khal, not just have things pick up some time afterward with little or no explanation as to how things got to how they are.
     
  3. StayFrosty

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    A thought I had related to a few posts i made in the TV thread: IF Jon Snow is in fact the son of Rhaegar Targeryen and Ned's sister, how the hell can GRRM reveal that? Ned was the last person who was there and could have known, and he never told a soul, so the secret (if it's true) should have died with him.
     
  4. Trakiel

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    It's been mentioned that Howland Reed knows Jon's parentage as well.
     
  5. Improper

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    Also, Ned wrote a letter and gave to Varys, while in the Black Cells.
     
  6. Trakiel

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    I don't recall that letter mentioning Jon's parentage, but it's been many years since I read AGoT. Can you elaborate?
     
  7. silway

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    ADWD kills me with the number of cliffhangers. Overall, the plot goes almost nowhere despite some shocking moments. The book starts in Mereen and by the end we're still in damned Mereen. And Mereen sucks. Jon spends the entire book being obnoxious on the Wall and then when he finally goes to do something the book ends. Stannis is in a snowstorm for half the book.

    Now, I remember thinking that the book picked up quite a bit and became much more interesting once it caught up to the timeline of AFFC, but those interesting things never paid off. Jon "dies" in a spot where he will either warg into Ghost or Melisandre can bring him back. Stannis fails based on a letter from the never reliable Ramsay. Dany is on a dragon essentially back where she started. Mereen is, gasp!, on the edge of war. And an invasion of Westeros from Aegon has begun. But nothing has resolved. And nothing has resolved for the past two books. Cersei *still* hasn't had her trial after all this time. The most interesting thing is the death of Kevan. It seems the most likely to actually stick and have serious consequences. Everything else is in this nebulous state of waiting to see if it's actually meaningful or not. Cliffhangers for the sake of artificially leaving us wanting more rather than actually dramatic storytelling. Compare it with the end of A Storm of Swords which has some actual resolutions and also leaves us n the edge waiting to see what will happen next.
     
  8. Eidon

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    From what I understand, Martin's editor actually made him leave out the final chapters of the book so that it could end more "cliffhanger-y." I'm still seriously annoyed about it, but I'm not sure it's Martin's fault.

    That said, I definitely think he did himself a disservice with this book. Parts of it were very good, but there was too much filler and not enough progression. The overall story was very tight through the end of Swords, but it's been sprawling ever since. He didn't undo any of the damage with this book. Winds of Winter will have to be a straight masterpiece to get the story back to being both streamlined and compelling. I have enough faith in Martin that I believe that's a possibility, but at this point I certainly won't be counting on it.

    EDIT: I think one of the things that really ended up costing him was his letting the number of viewpoints get out of control. He got somewhat addicted to developing newer and more numerous viewpoints, and as a result we ended up confused and all over the map. If he'd taken the same approach to the first three novels, we'd never have gotten anywhere. Multiple perspectives in storytelling is a double-edged sword: it can create a much fuller and nuanced narrative, as it did in his early books, but it can also seem disjointed and dull, which he's beginning to run into.
     
  9. Uno

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    He has also said he has no issue adding more viewpoints, and would happily do so if he thinks it would forward the story.
    I also agree on the too many viewpoints, it's bogging everything down. Martin needs to do what Martin does best and start killing off some characters.
     
  10. LessTalk MoreStab

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    Just finished the latest book. Was a bit on the meh side. For me it was nice to fall back into the story and style but I don’t think Georgie boy broke enough new ground to make it a great stand alone book on its own credentials. And I still can't see then end being in sight.

    Check this out...
     
    #10 LessTalk MoreStab, Sep 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  11. ssycko

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    No, he just needs to kill one character. Brienne. God damnit those were the most infuriatingly boring chapters written in any book ever.
     
  12. The Dread Pirate

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  13. Improper

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    Sorry for my delay, Trakiel, I wanted to reread the bit that I was referencing. As it happens, I was wrong! While in the Black Cells, Ned is visited by Varys, and asks for pen and ink. Varys says sure, but mentions that he will use the letters to his own ends. Ned, all fevered and starved and half dead, immediately thinks of Jon, and how he wished he could let the boy know all the things he didn't. So....my fault, I had to reread it to get it straight. It is a maybe at best....we do not know what Ned wrote anyone, yet.

    Howland Reed is the key....he alone survived to remove Ned from Lya's bedside, and bring them all home. He knows exactly who made Jon.

    Another note, from the rereading - how great is GRRM at planning all the details out from the very start of this series?? In the flashback Ned has, of he and his companions riding to the Tower of Joy to retrieve his sister, he recalls the fellow and the horse that Lady Dustin mentions in ADWD. When you think of how all the details fit, it really is pretty solid.
     
  14. silway

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    He's actually, by his own admission, not that good at it. He relies on a superfan to check his work. I think in one of his blog posts he even calls out the horse as an instance where the superfan told him what it should be like.

    GRRM has a broad concept in his head but not a solid plan. That's why we're looking at 7-8 books for a series originally planned to be a trilogy.
     
  15. lyle

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    This isn't on topic but is about the production of the second series.

    One of my friends (JB) just got back form Ireland, where he was doing some work as an extra on GoT. He was cast as one of Lord Renley's troops and filmed a couple of scenes involving a fight between Lord Renley's boyfriend/Knight and a MASSIVE woman.
    After they had wrapped for the day all of the cast and crew returned to the main tent (that housed wardrobe, the caterers and other assorted offices) to get out of costume and get something to eat when the tail end of Hurricane Katia decided that she wanted in on the battle.
    At first it didn't seem too bad, the tent was huge - easily 100m by 40m and seemed to be able to withstand the battering of the winds, but then they picked up, and so did the tent.
    One of the walls that ran the width of the tent was first to go, taking with it part of the roof. Beams and strip lighting fell, some catching fleeing crew. It was at this point that JB thought it might be a good idea to get the fuck out of the place.
    As he was making his escape a glass door got separated from its frame, pinning the person in front of him. JB managed to get the guy free and they managed to get out of the collapsing tent. Along with around 50 or so hundred extras, all in battle dress.

    Aside from 4 people, no one was seriously injured. A miracle really.

    As far as I know shooting will resume in a month, so if JB goes over again I'll hopefully be able to get a bit more gossip.
     
  16. silway

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    Whoa, crazy. i hope those four recover ok.

    The massive woman is probably whoever is playing Brienne is my guess.
     
  17. Improper

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    From the Not A Blog, on GRRM's site:

    <a class="postlink" href="http://grrm.livejournal.com/227044.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://grrm.livejournal.com/227044.html</a>
     
  18. Solid Ssssnake

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    I've been reading different comments on reviews of ADwD, and some commenters have stated that if Jon Snow's parents are Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar, then Jon would be an heir to the throne. I believe Lyanna and Rhaegar are his parents, but wouldn't he still be a bastard and only have a claim if legitimized by the king? Thoughts?
     
  19. Roxanne

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    I believe there was a theory that Rhaegar had married Lyanna in secret.
     
  20. iczorro

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    Also, that would qualify him to marry Danny, along with Aegon, and they'd be the other two heads of the dragon.