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Friday Sober Thread: Tragedy in Connecticut

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by shimmered, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. audreymonroe

    audreymonroe
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    The most powerful cervix... in the world...

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    I am going to try to word this as delicately as possible, because I know that even an off-handed mention of Obamacare can ignite a whole other supercalm debate, but, with the whole idea of healthcare reform in the air these past few years, does anyone have any idea/information as to why mental health care is being left out? (Or is it?) Why is it so rare for mental health to be covered under insurance even as how it is now? I don't even know where to begin to look for these answers but I'm assuming it has been discussed in great length somewhere before.

    (Of course, along the lines of "even if guns were illegal, criminals would still get guns" there's the likelihood that even if mental healthcare was much more accessible the people who'd really need it - as in, to prevent shooting up a public place - probably wouldn't go seeking it out on their own. But, still, it at least seems like a start.)
     
  2. Nitwit

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    Do mentally ill people, generally, even vote?

    Is there an organized collective organization of people who know mentally ill people that could produce enough votes for this issue that would garner, more votes?

    We don't know what information will surface but; so far, there's been no indication that this young man was preparing to shoot his mother in the face and then go kill children in kindergarten.
     
  3. lust4life

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    I don't think it's a matter of MH not being covered by insurance. Instead, there are two different reasons many with mental disorders don't get "treatment": the first is, given the stigma associated with mental illness (read back a few pages for some good examples) many don't seek treatment and many who have spent time in an in-patient psychiatric facility want no part of that experience again (I have, and I continue to visit some to bring AA meetings to those with a dual diagnosis and what I've experienced and still see, I can't blame them). The second reason is lack of insurance. Those with serious mental illness tend to be unemployed (and unemployable in most cases without medication). The only in patient treatment option for them are the state institutions and frankly, I'd rather take my chances with bypass surgery in a back alley clinic in Tijuana. There are community MH programs, but resources are limited and a lot of the patients aren't medication compliant.

    Lanza's remaining family has asked that, in lieu of flowers for him and his mother, donations be made to Autism Speaks, heavily suggesting he had a diagnosis on the spectrum. But I wouldn't rule out a co-morbidity or a misdiagnosis. Bi-polar disorder is not uncommon in individuals with Aspergers and in some cases, it can be very hard to distinguish between Aspergers and schizo-affective disorder. Since the person he was living with is also dead, we may never know what the catalyst of his psychotic episode was. We can never know what exactly is going on in someone else's head.
     
  4. ssycko

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    Like lust4life said, the perception of mental health in this country is... not good. It's getting (slightly) better, but even then, if somebody is found out to be taking something for depression they're almost immediately labeled as crazy. It's going to be a very long time before psychiatry is viewed on the same level as physical medicines, but even then, how exactly do you use that knowledge to catch people at risk for actions like this before they happen?

    They aren't going to go to a psychiatrist themselves, and it's not like you can just look at somebody and give a diagnosis.
     
  5. RCGT

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    You jumped on me because you're a dipshit who likes to speculate. Nothing more. You've got no data, no evidence, and as you yourself said:
    Talk about not having anything to say.
     
  6. goodlife23

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  7. RCGT

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    If mental health care was more readily available, then those who needed it would probably be pushed towards it by those around them. So that's always helpful.
     
  8. JC62

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  9. Kubla Kahn

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    Ive heard this info too but from other message boards. Where are you reading this? I've also heard that school officials are claiming that his mother had no connection to the school at all and that the reports of her being a teacher there were false...
     
  10. caseykasem

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  11. NotaPharmacist

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    Per a conversation with an actual reporter from the Wall Street Journal covering the shooting in CT for the past few days, Lanza's mother was not a doomsday prepper. Not even close. In fact most of the people who commented during early reports are pissed about how their statements were misconstrued.

    On an unrelated note, I don't think that a town with a median family income of $100K needs fucking teddy bears or jackets like the ones many people are trying to gather for the kids. I'm guessing circulating petitions that resemble their political wants would mean more to them. But, you know, people help however they want, not in ways that the recipients want.
     
  12. BrianH

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    I've never played a video game to train, unless you count CAS simulators.

    There is a lot of research about the military increasing lethality by switching to silhouette targets, but I've never heard any correlation to video games. The Army has a FPS video game (I've heard) that they use for recruiting, but not training.
     
  13. downndirty

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    I had to explain this 7 times to 50 baffled Koreans today, so here goes:

    This kid was going to kill himself, sooner or later. He was weak, his mom was a bit "out there" and had him removed from school, and he was isolated. Sad, lonely, depressed, angry and with a combination of nebulous psychological words like "autistic" and "Asperger's" in his file were bound to ensure he stayed that way. So, suicide was the answer. However, he wasn't using suicide as an escape. He was using it as a weapon, a tool to make everyone he loved or admired regret how they treated him. He also was going to become so Goddamned famous, that his life will be studied with similar scrutiny to presidents and dictators. He is now so famous, they are interviewing random acquaintances, his Facebook friends and teachers from the same school district that he attended. That's a level of infamy that is reserved for pretty much Kim Jong Il and this fuck. Also, think about how guilty his parents, his brother, his teachers, his coaches, his mentors must feel right now. An entire social network thinking "if only I had...." and alternating between extreme guilt and the sheer lunacy of having to avoid a media shit-show.

    So, he chose his target rationally and deliberately. A mass shooting in nearly any other crowded place would have armed security close at hand. He elected to become a true villain and in one action, became one of the most feared, terrible criminals in his generation. Look at the outpouring of support, the media frenzy, the fact that photos of his victims faces are being broadcast in Korean, and you'll understand how powerful this action was. Instantly, the world knew his name and feared it. He knew it before he did it, and you can bet that more than gun control, psychological evaluation or any other factor THAT is what will determine the next one. How famous the shooter is, how long the media discuss it and how hysterical people get. If we're not really careful, this will turn into a psycho pissing contest where the goal is the shock and the body count.

    The sad part is he hit the US where it's weakest: there isn't a solution to this. Gun control wouldn't have impacted him, because he stole the guns from his mom and he wasn't old enough to own guns anyway. Psych evaluation would have thought he was weird and needed socializing or therapy, but probably wouldn't have predicted any episode like this. Security in the school may happen, and it'll be a tremendous waste of resources, because what the fuck will a cop do during elementary school hours except waste money/time for 99.9999% of the assignment? He executed his mission miserably well, because the US simply cannot tolerate a problem without a solution. There will be a scapegoat, despite dozens of facts suggesting things like gun violence is at the lowest level it's been in 30 years, or video games have gotten more realistic and more violent without inspiring millions of players to commit a single act of violence, or that this guy was a sad, lonely, little man whose best shot of being famous, powerful and exacting revenge was by committing one of the single worst acts a human can visit upon another human. The more attention this gets, the more people will demand a sacrifice, and you can bet your ass they won't offer up the media attention that is currently fanning the flames of this tragedy.
     
  14. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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    Agree with every word of your post except this--it already HAS turned into a psycho pissing contest. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it turns out that this fucktard saw the Batman shooting coverage, wondered how he could one-up that in the public eye, and settled on shooting up a fucking elementary school.

    Another point to make--a day or two before the Newtown shooting, another psycho brought a gun into a mall in Oregon and started shooting people, but only killed two before turning the gun on himself. Why did he turn the gun on himself?? Because a heroic citizen with a concealed carry permit drew his own gun on the shooter (didn't shoot him because he didn't have a clear shot).

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-a ... 93571.html</a>

    Nick Meli should be held up as an American hero, yet 99.999% of the American public has never heard his name. Why? Because, other than this one local station in Portland, THE MEDIA HAS NOT REPORTED THIS. Think about that. Why does the media not want you to know that a law-abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit and weapon likely saved a dozen or more lives in Oregon??
     
  15. lust4life

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    Weak in what sense? Weak because he couldn't overcome his mental illness? And I seriously doubt fame enters anywhere into the motive equation. This was a kid who avoided attention and struggled with just blending into the woodwork to avoid social contact.
     
  16. Rush-O-Matic

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    Does anybody have a link to an updated / accurate, to the best of their knowledge, report of the factual information in this? As many of the details unfolded, and even now, I keep reading conflicting information; like the shooter used a rifle or no, the rifle was still in the car; the mother was a teacher at the school, no she was a substitute, no she never worked at the school. Now, all the coverage seems to be on what congress should or shouldn't do, what is asbergers, how to protect schools, etc - all that's fine, I'd just like to know the actual story, and can't seem to find a good source on that.
     
  17. happyfunball

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    A friend of mine recommended the Hartford Courant, which is their local paper. Here is an article that I found interesting:

    Hartford Courant

    They seem to have more details than other papers.
     
  18. Trakiel

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    This is just speculation/wishful thinking. I'm all for citizens exercizing their right to carry concealed, but using that article as an example of how CC prevents/mitigates crimes like this is absolutely dubious at best. Considering these spree shooters are increasingly wearing body armor they're already preparing to be shot at, so it seems unlikely that the potential for citizens CCing is any deterrent to them.
     
  19. JC62

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    The local paper to Newtown is actually the Danbury NewsTimes - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.newstimes.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.newstimes.com/</a>

    Another paper that is local is the Waterbury Republican American - <a class="postlink" href="http://www.rep-am.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.rep-am.com</a>

    They both have accurate information. Adam Lanza's mother had no connection to the school. She had been a stock broker in Boston for a number of years and her ex husband is a GE executive. They had an amicable divorce and she was in a position where she didn't have to work. Adam used a Bushmaster semi automatic rifle with Remington .223 ammunition in 30 round clips to kill his victims. He killed himself with a Glock 9mm hand gun and also had a Sig Sauer 9 mm in his possession. The police found a 30/30 rifle in the trunk of his car. All the guns were purchased legally and were owned by his mother. He killed her first with her own 22 caliber rifle.

    I have a good friend that is a CT. State trooper and he spent late Friday afternoon until early Saturday morning at the school. He, like all of the responders won't talk about what he saw and the carnage he experienced. He came home, picked up his 3 year old daughter and held her for hours.

    As a parent I can't even imagine the pain and suffering these families are going through.
     
  20. happyfunball

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    I was talking to some friends of mine and stated how I wouldn't be surprised if the police, etc. wouldn't need counseling themselves when it's all said and done. I can't imagine the crime scene.
     
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